Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Marking the beat
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (3 votes) 
Avatar
stringy
Members

Regulars
March 27, 2022 - 2:55 pm
Member Since: August 23, 2020
Forum Posts: 1478
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was wondering about when you learn a piece, Does anyone work out where the beat goes then mark it on the score in each bar, or do you just remember where it goes.

I have always tried to just remember which I find difficult, how does everyone else on here do it, do You have your own way or do you mark the score. For me reading is hard enough as it is without remembering , especially something like 13/8.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

Avatar
Mouse
March 27, 2022 - 4:58 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 4171
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If you are just wondering how others do it vs marking, I just do it. If I don’t know a piece, because I am not musically inclined and able to do a piece I haven’t heard the beats and accents to, I just don’t do those pieces. It is hard enough for me to be able to play with correct intonation, so I have to know how a piece is to sound before I can play it. Since I have to know how a piece is supposed to sound before I can do it, by definition, I know the beats and accents and just do it. I am so not musically inclined. Makes this very difficult.

But if you are asking because you think there is a right or wrong, I would think you do whatever works for you. I think you mark whatever you need on your sheet music.

The Bumblebee Flies!

Avatar
stringy
Members

Regulars
March 27, 2022 - 5:25 pm
Member Since: August 23, 2020
Forum Posts: 1478
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was wondering how others do it. I can learn a classical piece for instance, and as you say, if I havent heard it first it generaĺly sounds nothing like the tune when I do hear it for the first time, ;) so my new way of learning is paying close attention to slowness and each note perfectly in tune, and also counting properly and getting the beat correct, its like knocking a mountain down with a spoon to be honest, and to tell the truth, I was thinking of knocking the classical side on the head and concentrating on trad, as I find I am wasting a lot of time on reading music when I could actually be playin So having said all that, and not having a teacher which I assume woud greatly help with this aspect, I just thought is there some magical and obvious thing which I am missing?

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

Avatar
SharonC
Members

Regulars
March 27, 2022 - 6:53 pm
Member Since: June 24, 2020
Forum Posts: 921
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@stringy 

From my own experience, I have a pretty set way that I count because it was drilled into me as a child (drum student), so kind of part of my being now smile .  However, even then, with complex rhythms (like you say 13/8, etc., ),  I’ve written out things on my sheet music – and sometimes it will vary from the counting “rules” that I have for myself.   When I find that I need to write something out, I’ll start with the downbeats, & then annotate whatever I need to do to (syllables, etc.,) to have it make sense to me.

I’ve attached an example of what I did in the Bach Double, 3rd movement.  It is in 3/4 time.  In measure 11 (2nd violin), it has a few triplets followed by 16th notes & some slurs, too (which will throw me off).  The highlighter is added for this example (I wouldn’t use highlighter in my sheet music).

BachDmvt3eg1.jpgImage Enlarger

 

So, the first thing I do is find the 3 down beats, & draw a line separating them.  In this case, I separate the 1st beat into two parts because of the 8th note rest (1, + - which I articulate as “one, and”). 

And then since the 2nd beat is structured much like the 1st beat (an 8th note (rather than an 8th rest) and a triplet), I separate it the same way (2, +).

The 3rd beat is just four 16th notes (3 e + a – “three, eee, and, ah).  So, I can leave the 3rd beat alone for right now.

Back to the first two beats.  In my “method” of counting, I would normally count triplets as “one-laa-lee  two-laa-lee”, etc.,.  but since the triplet does not start at the beginning of the beat, I found myself counting it as “one, trip-pa-lee” followed “two, trip-pa-lee”.  "One" on the down beat (8th note), "Trip-pa-lee" on the upbeat (fills the space of an 8th note). 

“Trip-pa-lee” is just what seems to translate to me – I’d say whatever comes out for you that makes the rhythm right is the right thing for you to use. I did not write “Trip-pa-lee” on the sheet music – it was enough for me to just annotate the down & up beats (8th notes).

As for the slur on the 2nd beat from the 8th note to the beginning of the triplet – I would play these first two beats slowly, and either pause slightly at the slur, or I would initially play the 2nd beat without the slur.  Once I could hear it, I would remove the pause/replace the slur.

Once I got the 1st two beat down, then I would put the 3rd beat in.  Since the last beat is 16th notes, I would need to make sure I was focused on the 3 beats of the measure—that each beat had its allocated notes.  If I had trouble, I might pause in between each beat to make sure I played the notes within that beat correctly before going on to the next beat. 

Once I got the measure down, I would then go back to the previous measure 10 & play thru measure 11.  Then play measure 10 thru measure 12, etc.,

And I would definitely listen to the piece (on YouTube, etc.,), too.

Not sure if that’s helpful, or the kind of answer you were looking for.  

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

Avatar
stringy
Members

Regulars
March 27, 2022 - 7:32 pm
Member Since: August 23, 2020
Forum Posts: 1478
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Its exactly the kind of answer I was looking for sharon, thanks a mill, I will be honest I had to read througH it a couple of times to understand what you were meaning ! as I am thick as two short planks, but I get it, its basically maths division, a lot of practice indeed) thanks for taking the time to show me how you do it, its much appreciated.

I am getting into complicated music, which is easy enough to translate to the fingerboard, in as much as the notes and where they are, but phenomenally hard to get the correct timing.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
March 27, 2022 - 8:02 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1443
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

stringy said
I was wondering about when you learn a piece, Does anyone work out where the beat goes then mark it on the score in each bar, or do you just remember where it goes.

I have always tried to just remember which I find difficult, how does everyone else on here do it, do You have your own way or do you mark the score. For me reading is hard enough as it is without remembering , especially something like 13/8.

  

In orchestra music, I mark beats if it's even the slightest bit hard to read, whether it's because of a tricky rhythm or even simply because of how it's printed. Even if I'm going to get it right 99 times out of 100, I don't take risks there. It's harder to remember than solo music because many of the tricky rhythms are in the background, not the melody.

In solo music, I do it less often because I find it easier to remember, but I still do sometimes if it's especially tricky.

Unlike Sharon, I do not number the beats. I mark where the conductor beats.

In more complicated rhythms, where the conductor may beat a mixture of long and short "beats," I use triangles above the staff to mark the threes and plain lines to mark the twos. For example, let's say there's a passage in 7/8 time where the conductor is in 3 (3+2+2), I'll mark the dotted quarter note "beat" with a triangle to signal that it's three eighth notes, and the quarter note lines with plain lines.

Avatar
stringy
Members

Regulars
March 28, 2022 - 3:13 pm
Member Since: August 23, 2020
Forum Posts: 1478
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks for the reply Andrew its most helpful. It seems a bit of a chore, but I now realise for me at least its going to be an essential to learning pieces correctly.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
March 31, 2022 - 2:14 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16063

Commonly done in orchestras with very tricky parts.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 61
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today laserbrainz, EricBluegrassFiddle
Upcoming Killerkhezu, Ferret, visionsalchemy, HDuaneaz, Preanix, Writer, chendricks, BillyG, rsmith6322, ACDSherlockian, NiloiV, Dan, jose6ph, Kody, music_master
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 5011
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2680
ABitRusty: 2672
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Gordon Shumway: 2099
damfino: 2044
Kevin M.: 1973
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31104
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 79
Topics: 9904
Posts: 124665
Newest Members:
Sagelucy
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16063, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3741, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 4171