Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Check out our 2023 Group Christmas Project HERE

AAA
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Do You Have An Over-speed Governor For Fiddling?
Breaking speed barriers.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (19 votes) 
Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
October 6, 2021 - 10:19 am
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 4004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@fiddlerman fast/slow being related to me...but ive been able to play my fastest when i dont have to read music and know the melody well.  there seems to be a point in reading the music that im sorta reading notes but halfway have the melody in my head so i may be cutting a note short and picking up the difference on the next and wont realize that unless i have someone else playing or metronome or something.. but after i get all that ironed out and can just play by memory my speed seems to improve, i feel more relaxed ..fingers dont seem to move off board as high..stuff just feels easier. then ill start trying to play around with what ornaments work.. its probably better to think about that ahead of time i guess, and if its a lesson tune from teacher alot of that is suggested up front...but on my own the other process seems to be what i fall into... i think thats what youre asking..

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
October 6, 2021 - 11:33 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ABitRusty -

I agree with you. 

It would be hard for me to believe that anyone who plays by reading score notation, doesn't have to practice fast passages enough that they are actually memorized. 

And, don't we have to think ahead - to know where we are going? 

 

@Fiddlerman -

It definitely helps to think about it! 

I believe thinking about 'what' and 'why' we need to do things is the key to change and progress.  🤗

I may grumble about things taking time or being difficult, but what I find here helps me to better understand my giant 'puzzle' (the violin/viola, with all it's potential in my hands) and shows me where the puzzle pieces go! 🥰 

Scary Halloween Monster Emoticons

...sometimes it's just hard to accept that I can't have all the pieces fit at once. 🙄 

- Emily

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 6, 2021 - 3:52 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16437
23sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Yep..... Reading music is a bit like reading words. If you do it a lot it gets faster.
Reading ahead helps a lot.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
October 6, 2021 - 9:05 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1712
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

ELCBK said
@ABitRusty -

I agree with you. 

It would be hard for me to believe that anyone who plays by reading score notation, doesn't have to practice fast passages enough that they are actually memorized. 

And, don't we have to think ahead - to know where we are going? 

 

  

This is definitely true. Normally, when I play in orchestras, by the week of the concert I have all the trickiest passages from the whole concert memorized. Not necessarily by trying to memorize them, just from having practiced them quite a bit.

It's related in some sense to my comment earlier about thinking of notes in groups rather than one at a time.

During a concert, I definitely still need the sheet music in front of me because there's no way I can memorize an hour and a half of orchestra music in less than a month. Generally I'm reading off the page in the easier parts of the piece even in the concert, because I've barely practiced them at all. When I have a tough passage, during the concert, I see the entire passage coming up ahead and it cues me to play the passage mainly from memory even if I've written in fingerings for every note.

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
October 7, 2021 - 12:43 am
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 4004
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@AndrewH i cant imagine having to commit a whole classical performance to memory.  im doing good with 16 bars most of the time.  lol

on the note groupings.. yeah its definitely easier to look for the repeating patterns in the folk tunes.  theyre always there..maybe with a bar different at the end but almost always a theme of sorts.  weird but even from tune to tune theres some similarities that help.

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
October 7, 2021 - 1:19 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@AndrewH -

Thanks, Andrew - that's totally understandable. 

Fiddle music is easier to memorize because of basic 'parts' or phrases. 

Think all the other music I've played so far, has at least some sort of re-occurring motif that makes them easy to remember. 

I do notice I'm able to play tunes faster, in general, than say a month ago.  ...and getting much easier/quicker to read sheet music & to pick up music by ear. 

At less than 2½ years into this, I've more than reached my original goals! 🤗 

Now, if I can become good enough to be able to help my Grandkids with music - that would be the icing on the cake. 😊 

- Emily

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Members

Regulars
October 7, 2021 - 7:31 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 2450
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I apologise for not having read the whole thread.

If it's about the problem of speed, then you may be interested to hear that the ABRSM approach seems to be (in case it's of interest): -

FIRST get AFAP (as fast as possible) ASAP on the easiest possible stuff.

THEN when up to speed make it more and more difficult.

Are you attempting it the other way around?

Andrew

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Members

Regulars
October 7, 2021 - 8:44 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 2450
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

ABitRusty said
i cant imagine having to commit a whole classical performance to memory. 

No, I think you are either born to it, or, like Julian Bream, you rehearse a piece literally for a whole year before performing it.

Andrew

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
October 7, 2021 - 11:47 am
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Gordon Shumway -  

Thanks!

Julian Bream got to play over a 50 year span, if I was going to practice something for a year - it would have to be pretty unique, because I don't have many years left! (lol)

Not so sure about the 'learning simple fast, then adding complexity' route.  For me, so far, I have to memorize it exactly the way I want to end up - and then speed it up.  Speed is the hardest obstacle for me to overcome.  ...well, except for vibrato.😒 

I definitely agree about getting up to speed ASAP - seems harder if I get too comfortable at a slower speed. 

 

 

Yep, it would be great if you read a whole thread. 

...I'd love to take you down one of my rabbit holes! 🤣 

- Emily

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2023 - 10:44 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Been working hard on getting 'The Smokey Lum' up to speed - don't know if I'll ever quite make it (or even if I really need too)... anyway, it feels like I'm flying! 

Not going to record it until I get 'Maggie's Pancakes' up even with it. 😁  

 

Some really interesting thoughts, on this topic, in this video - some people artificially speeding music up (but then can't play it live that fast), but what's really great - Adam actually talks about 'Fiddling', the jazz/rock of Mahavishnu Orchestra (Gerry Goodman on violin), AND Yo Yo Ma!!! 

Does Music Have a Speed Limit?  And Why? - Adam Neely! 

 

🤔... speaking of speed - when recorded music is sped up, the pitch rises.  At what point of change do we start to notice it? 

If I slow a recording down to learn it - am I teaching myself to play out of tune?

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
August 29, 2023 - 5:52 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1712
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

ELCBK said
 

🤔... speaking of speed - when recorded music is sped up, the pitch rises.  At what point of change do we start to notice it? 

If I slow a recording down to learn it - am I teaching myself to play out of tune?

  

Just want to answer this part: it depends. If you're playing a recording at a different speed without correction, then it'll play back at a different pitch. But if you're using software that corrects it -- and YouTube's playback speed function does -- then it will be adjusted back to the original pitch. (That said, if you try to slow it down too much from the original speed, it may sound distorted because the gaps the software needs to fill are too big.) DAWs typically give you the option of changing playback speed with or without pitch correction.

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
August 29, 2023 - 12:42 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@AndrewH -

Thank you! 

Interesting! 😊

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
December 13, 2023 - 5:49 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 8056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

music-clipart-christmas-1.png

Was thinking of what may seem to be natural quick finger movements & remembered I picked up finger 'rapping'/rolling, on a table or desk, when I was a kid (probably from watching Looney Tunes 🤪) - because I was a typical bored S*A* kid & seemed the perfect non-verbal gesture. 

I like to hear each finger tap equally spaced - cool to hear fingernails, but none of us should have any on our left hands anymore!

The weird thing about it (for me) is I can do each hand, each finger, FAST & perfectly even/smooth-sounding... BUT, ONLY in '1' direction - from pinky to index finger! 

...when I try going from index finger to pinky it's choppy, sometimes 2 fingers at the same time - like they don't even belong to the same hand!  Of course this odd way gets a little better when I work on it, but I don't remember the original order feeling awkward to learn - at all.  

It's the same for both of 'my' hands. 

Is this some ingrained pattern of co-ordination, natural movement? 

Importantly, might this effect how fast we can play an ascending run of notes vs a descending run? 

 

 

When you grasp something with your hand - do all your fingers close on it equally, at the same time - OR, do you notice your pinky leads the way? 

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
December 13, 2023 - 7:36 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 1712
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I just tried closing my hand quickly a few times... if I don't consciously try to move all my fingers together, my middle and ring fingers lead (approximately together), followed by index finger, and pinky last.

For me, it's slightly easier to tap evenly going from pinky to index finger than the other way around because my pinky tends to be a bit slow and the delay before the pinky tap isn't audible if I start with the pinky. If I mentally prepare the motion ahead of time, I still have no trouble making the taps equally spaced on the first attempt in any direction, but it's less consistent going from index finger to pinky if I try to do it without about half a second to prepare, or if I repeat it enough times for the fingers to start to tire.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Jim Dunleavy
Guest(s) 129
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming Fiddlerman, estudy, vitthal36, DD, Bismarck, augustoad, Space., Mirrim9999, loveluach, reedc83, JillyR, Fashionandfiddle, Bassman72, ELCBK
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 8056
ABitRusty: 4004
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2690
Fiddlestix: 2647
Gordon Shumway: 2450
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Mark: 2175
damfino: 2113
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31698
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 82
Topics: 10635
Posts: 134929
Newest Members:
OliviaErin, pbstrings, nayaghosh, henrykang, anna.byrne80, LisaLarkin, dairythuda, vapidsloth, ameliajames, nowicjusz
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16437, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3744, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 5434