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Skype
Practice performance and teaching
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trillzango
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December 16, 2019 - 2:44 pm
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I'd like to make a group of people who would like to make this a thing

 

Looking to do quartets 

And experiment with different sounds avant garde style with electric instruments kinda like the transiberian orchestra with Halloween music and do some symphonic metal covers

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AndrewH
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December 16, 2019 - 2:52 pm
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If you mean playing together over Skype, I'm not sure this would work. Latency would make it extremely hard to stay together.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 22, 2019 - 9:34 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Yes, unfortunately that wouldn't work on Skype very well. Of course you can play along with someone else but that person has to be prepared to play ahead of you.
I believe there is a site for this but I'm not sure how they could solve latency.
You could instead, record yourself and your part, share it with others. If you have the drive, you could even post the results here. We would love to see it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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GregW
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December 22, 2019 - 10:26 am
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https://jammr.net/faq.html

Ive not used this but they say they solved the latency issue.  Its still not realtime and requires some setup and probably a subscription.  FYI for those interested.

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trillzango
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December 25, 2019 - 7:16 pm
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Not sure what latency means but I thought Skype would be a good way to practice together so perhaps recording and having the other record and overlaying together would work

 

Or just have someone listen to you over Skype while practicing so they can give you constructive criticism not sure

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cid
December 25, 2019 - 9:01 pm
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With latency, I think you would not be able to play in sync. There is a short period of time before what you play is heard by the other person. It is not a fast delivery like a cell phone conversation. You would not be able to play together, especially with any hope of the session helping either one of you.

You know how the sound track is off on tv at times? You see the lips move, but the sound is not matched up. That is what it would be like.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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GregW
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December 25, 2019 - 11:00 pm
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trillzango said
Not sure what latency means but I thought Skype would be a good way to practice together so perhaps recording and having the other record and overlaying together would work

 

Or just have someone listen to you over Skype while practicing so they can give you constructive criticism not sure

  

you might consider the critique corner on the forum here.  Record a video and post under that section for feedback.  

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starise
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December 28, 2019 - 2:09 pm
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trillzango said
I'd like to make a group of people who would like to make this a thing

 

Looking to do quartets 

And experiment with different sounds avant garde style with electric instruments kinda like the transiberian orchestra with Halloween music and do some symphonic metal covers

  

You could download theBandlab app for free and solicit what you are looking for. People can add parts to your music. It's mostly for fun. Nothing live though. I am Starise over there. I never went into it in a big way but it's a fun way to meet people from all over the world and play with them or just post your music. 

You can get Cakewalk for free there as well. Deep DAW...if you aren't given to that kind of thing it's probably overkill since you can just record audio on your smart phone and send it to Bandlab. OTOH, if you want to get into a heavy weight DAW go for it 🙂

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
December 29, 2019 - 7:51 am
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Oh I meant to mention JamKazam when I saw the post earlier.  I've investigated it, but never used it (pointless here with limited broadband speed and connectivity type (copper to exchange 4 miles away, then on to fiber)

They claim that with a 15 mSec delay to the server and a 15 mSec delay to your play-along partners that such a round-trip delay (30mSec) is generally acceptable - and to some extent, well yes depending on what you're doing / type and tempo of music (it is not unusual to "widen" a vocalist's voice, intentionally during mixing by adding a 10 to 20mSec "echo" and the listener doesn't specifically perceive THAT as an echo, although probably aware that "something's been done to the voice").

I find that (the 30 mSec round-trip they suggest) possibly over-optimistic [ it may well be achievable on fiber connections to the door - but even locally (i.e for me, in the UK) the best ping-time to any server still within the UK is at least 45mSec, making that almost a tenth of a second "round-trip" - that's not good enough and will create an evident "echoy/out-of-sync" sound....]

To put another measurement on this - I occasionally play and stream live on StreetJelly ( server in USA, me in UK ) and during set-up of the stream when you listen in-ear to your own playing "coming back" to you from the server - there is a full 7 (yes seven) second delay.  But that is NOT an issue for listeners - I'm soloing and each listener is hearing it separately, with their own server-to-them delay - no one is trying to play-along and synchronise to me in "real-ish time" 

***EDIT*** note - that 7 second delay I experience is on combined audio/video streaming - on audio only it would be significantly less - I suspect  JamKazam is audio streaming only ( I could be wrong ) - and to create your "group video" you would use a separate toolset, either using a digi-cam or a separate app recording a webcam,  with each player locally recording their own video, and then with someone collecting all the videos and the "already-mixed" audio and doing some video editing to bring it all together.  This is guess-work on my part - but based on JamKazam's info which states "The bandwidth required for a session is approximately equal to the number of musicians in the session minus one times 250kbps. So to support a session with 5 musicians, each musician in that session would need his/her Internet service to support upload and download bandwidth of ((5 – 1) * 250kbps) = 1,000kbps = 1Mbps" - I simply cannot see a 250kbps connection carrying unbroken video + audio unless they have developed a new to science compression algorithm....

JamKazam also has (with an add-on bit of kit) mobile connectivity - and if you're running on a 4g or 5g wireless mobile network (we're still at 3g here) - I would then see that as well achievable.  ( Still with latency obviously - that is unavoidable, but down at or even within in the claimed 30mSec round trip)

So - don't get me wrong - I'm in no way "knocking" JamKazzam - they clearly understand the latency issues and if you have good connectivity - it might just serve your purpose @trillzango 

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Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Gordon Shumway
London, England
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December 29, 2019 - 8:39 am
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My experience of Skype is that it is simply rubbish. I'd say I get a good connection with it perhaps 10% of the time.

Andrew

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AndrewH
Sacramento, California
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December 29, 2019 - 6:56 pm
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30 ms seems overly optimistic. Using Speedtest, which always tests with a nearby server, I've never seen a ping time below 22 ms for any home internet connection I've ever had; 30-35 ms is typical.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 29, 2019 - 8:17 pm
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The problem with latency and chamber music is that it's on both ends. Every player would wait for the other and that would tun into a never ending lagging loop......

I love Skype for lessons and communication provided both parties have good internet but forget it for chamber music unless one player is designated to just play and ignore the partner.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Gordon Shumway
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December 30, 2019 - 5:02 am
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Fiddlerman said
The problem with latency and chamber music is that it's on both ends. Every player would wait for the other and that would tun into a never ending lagging loop...... 

Exactly. Also the machines add to the apparent latency by being slowed down by multitasking.

Andrew

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
December 31, 2019 - 6:58 am
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AndrewH said
30 ms seems overly optimistic. Using Speedtest, which always tests with a nearby server, I've never seen a ping time below 22 ms for any home internet connection I've ever had; 30-35 ms is typical.

  

  Oh, I agree !  Your ping results are better than mine (which is nearer 40-45 mSec making a "round trip" close to 1/10th second - and that's just too long).  I guess for folks with FTTP it may   well be better, but I'm unlikely to ever get that level of tech out in the sticks ROFL! 

  Besides, to quote Scotty from Star Trek - "ye cannae change the laws o' physics Cap'n"

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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AndrewH
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December 31, 2019 - 9:07 pm
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BillyG said
 

Oh, I agree !  Your ping results are better than mine (which is nearer 40-45 mSec making a "round trip" close to 1/10th second - and that's just too long).  I guess for folks with FTTP it may   well be better, but I'm unlikely to ever get that level of tech out in the sticks ROFL! 

  Besides, to quote Scotty from Star Trek - "ye cannae change the laws o' physics Cap'n"

  

Speaking of which... actually doing the arithmetic, I notice it would be literally impossible to guarantee 30 ms worldwide. You and I live about 9000 km apart, give or take a couple hundred km. Even if we had a direct fiber optic line between our homes, along the shortest possible route, it would take light about 30 ms to go one way, and that would not include processing time at either end.

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