FORUM

Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Please feel free to share. “Game of Thrones Group Project”

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Some waffle about bows and insurance
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
July 6, 2020 - 11:47 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1164
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I just renewed my musical insurance policy.

The premium has gone up from £28 to £43 because I bought a Coda Diamond GX - bows are fragile and many are claimed for.

I totally love my Col Legno Standard. When I inquired about a Col Legno Deluxe, the vendor told me, don't bother - it's not worth the extra money.

When I first picked up the Coda I was amazed at the difference in feel, but it really only boils down to the fact that the balance point is an inch closer to the frog than on the Col Legno. Now that I'm used to it, it's nothing special, and there's a little bit of familiarity-breeds-contempt there already. I assume from the blurb that the Luma's balance point is even closer to the frog.

I have a shouty cellist friend who adamantly insists bow snobbery is the ultimate example of the emperor's new clothes. He is very fond of my teacher, a mutual friend, but her Hill viola bow is worth £6,000. Her backup bow is a Col Legno Standard!

vcom is full of snobs. Some of them think Codas are over-rated (they may be right), and they regard Arcus/Musing as beginners bows. My feeling is that you need to think carefully about whether you are really going to get more than 10% of such a bow's potential from it, and do you really want to pay that insurance premium?

I think a lot of them suffer from the illusion that every violin student must expect to play virtuoso concertos to paying audiences. This is pie in the sky.

My gut feeling is that my shouty cellist friend is right, unless your name is Alexander Markov, and we should be happy with our Col Legno's and our Fiddlershop carbons and stop wasting our money! Of course, if you have enough money, and spending it gives you fun, go ahead!

And when I get a better violin I may change my mind!

Andrew

Avatar
cid
July 6, 2020 - 2:22 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 2088
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think it is an individual’s preference. One uses what is most comfortable, the balance, feel of the hold (does the Frog part bother the thumb), etc. I don’t think it is for anyone to suggest to anyone what one should spend on a bow, instrument, etc. Whether it stretches someone’s budget, or it is an easy purchase, is also that person’s preference.

What is considered “wasting money” to one person, might be bringing more enjoyment to another. 

I just tried an Arcos Gold Special Edition, along with three other makes/models: Jamie Goldie, FR Hellmer circa 1932, and the non-special edition of the Arcos Gold. There was truly a difference in each. They all felt different in my hand. They all sounded different with the same exact cello, playing the same exact song. There were pluses and minuses for each. If someone else tried these same bows on my cello this way, they would have had different choices for #1, #2, #3 and #4. 

Choosing an instrument and bow, or anything for that matter, is one’s personal decision, and not for others to judge. Just my thoughts.

Viola Time! 

Avatar
Jim Dunleavy
United Kingdom
Members

Regulars
July 6, 2020 - 2:25 pm
Member Since: April 19, 2015
Forum Posts: 544
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

I recently bought myself a col legno standard, and I think it's a fantastic bow for the money. My off string bowing has improved significantly since I got it.

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
July 6, 2020 - 3:25 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 3433
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have now totally given up on bow choice !!!   LOLOLOL...  they ( the various different ones I use from even the cheapo-thing that came with my $80-or-so USD Thomann EV up to my Holstein PB ) can, across ALL my instruments - (for what I need to do) pretty much do the same thing...   And yes, agreed of course, the bowing HAS to be different between the bows, even rosin type and amount makes a difference ...

But that's not the point of my post really. it's more about what @Gordon Shumway says regarding v.com - 100% in agreement on that, Andrew !!!  Been there, had enough after about 10 days of unnecessary comment and failure to engage, and left....

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
July 7, 2020 - 5:20 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 850
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't see the same level of snobbery that's being described. I see a small handful of people saying those things, and a lot of people disagreeing vehemently. Almost half of the people there use relatively inexpensive carbon fiber bows! There is that one loud, obnoxious guy who thinks every violin made in the last 100 years is crap and all carbon fiber bows are barely fit for beginners -- but he got his comeuppance at the hands of another vcom regular when he failed to pick the carbon fiber bow out of a lineup of four bows in a blind test. As soon as you know who not to bother engaging, it's actually pretty pleasant.

(By the way, I actually have the opposite complaint about vcom: I feel many of the adult amateurs there lack ambition and are too quick to dismiss ambitious adult learners.)

As for bows: there is a point at which your bow will hold you back. I notice because I currently only have cheap student bows for my violin -- my backup viola bow cost as much as both of my violin bows combined. And the violin bows are definitely limiting in that both of them are too stiff; I can play the full range of bow strokes but it is much more difficult and less consistent than with my "good" viola bow. (And my "good" viola bow is a $500 hybrid.)

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Members

Regulars
July 7, 2020 - 5:31 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 850
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I find it pretty shocking that the insurance policy is going up that much for any carbon fiber bow, though. One of the main advantages of carbon fiber is that the bows are extremely durable and can stand up to a lot of abuse. I can't imagine insurance claims for CF bows being frequent.

Avatar
ELCB
Members

Regulars
July 7, 2020 - 6:43 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 262
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

This is all great info... now that the violin is no longer my hobby but an obsession/addiction!

Been trying to make my bow's quirks work to my advantage (for now) because even though I understand the important role of the bow, I just don't really know how to completely use it, yet.

When ("when" - Boy have I been bitten!) I do upgrade, I'm preeetty sure the sensible side of me (the small side) will still make me choose a Carbon Fiber bow for durability... maybe not one that costs more than my violindancinbunnyDoesn't mean I won't upgrade to better Carbon Composite Violin!

I had it "impressed" upon me as a kid that I must have a DEEP reverence and knowledge of what makes an item precious - which sure sets one up for a heart attack (I should have dropped dead quite a few times).

I've had precious things broken that were irreplaceable (no need for insurance there) - also lost precious things that were insured, only to find out my deductible was so high it didn't help much to have insurance.

Now, I just make sure I can get somewhat compensated if the house is destroyed or or if the car is stolen/destroyed with valuables in it...

 

- Emily

Avatar
MrYikes
Members

Regulars
July 8, 2020 - 4:51 pm
Member Since: February 11, 2014
Forum Posts: 632
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My Fiddlerman Carbon Bow is all that I will ever need or want.

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
July 10, 2020 - 10:47 am
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1508
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@MrYikes and others.  I spent a couple of years surveying the lower realms of Chinese violins and bows.  I could have saved some money if I stopped at the Mendini MV650 violin and a Fiddlerman carbon bow.  

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

It is unpleasant to be thought so uncleverly unclean and capable of poisoning a whole city.—Sir Walter Scott

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
July 10, 2020 - 2:43 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15154
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

MrYikes said
My Fiddlerman Carbon Bow is all that I will ever need or want.

bunny_pole_dancerdancingbananacheerleadercheers

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Mimi Aysha
Members

Regulars
July 19, 2020 - 11:18 am
Member Since: April 26, 2012
Forum Posts: 358
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

FM sent me some to test when I was in the market to upgrade from my free Brazil wood bow....

BLIND TEST with 6 bows: No prices known, mixture of wood and CF.

AUDIENCE AND TESTERS: Hubby, best violin buddy, teacher, and grandkids, everyone but hubby played....

RESULTS: Teacher and I picked the most expensive one, based on sound and feel of it, was CF not wood! go figure, it felt like wood, teacher was impressed. (Obviously he sounded amazing with all of them) Kids loved the FM carbon.

Hubby picked my fav, which we later found out was the most expensive. All worked out well tho, ended up being a valentines, mothers day and birthday present all wrapped into one, and I knew he'd forget by my birthday!

Bought the grands the FM carbon - friend bought the JonPaul CF 

Purely personal, a fun evening with lots of playing, swopping fiddles and bows. Amazing how when you get the feel of something comfortable you kind of forget about everything else, the playing reflected that.

Funny enough the coda came in last, I liked it, but absolutely fell in love with my Jon Paul Carrera. We all love our bows....I was warned that this will probably be the only bow I will ever own, simply love it!  

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
July 19, 2020 - 3:29 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 813
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Mimi Aysha said
FM sent me some to test when I was in the market to upgrade from my free Brazil wood bow....

BLIND TEST with 6 bows: No prices known, mixture of wood and CF.

AUDIENCE AND TESTERS: Hubby, best violin buddy, teacher, and grandkids, everyone but hubby played....

RESULTS: Teacher and I picked the most expensive one, based on sound and feel of it, was CF not wood! go figure, it felt like wood, teacher was impressed. (Obviously he sounded amazing with all of them) Kids loved the FM carbon.

Hubby picked my fav, which we later found out was the most expensive. All worked out well tho, ended up being a valentines, mothers day and birthday present all wrapped into one, and I knew he'd forget by my birthday!

Bought the grands the FM carbon - friend bought the JonPaul CF 

Purely personal, a fun evening with lots of playing, swopping fiddles and bows. Amazing how when you get the feel of something comfortable you kind of forget about everything else, the playing reflected that.

Funny enough the coda came in last, I liked it, but absolutely fell in love with my Jon Paul Carrera. We all love our bows....I was warned that this will probably be the only bow I will ever own, simply love it!  

  

Now that sounds like the way to test some bows out!.  what better way to spend an evening...fiddles, family, and friends!  congrats on the new bow!

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
July 20, 2020 - 11:25 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15154
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@mimi Aysha - I remember our conversations about these bows back in the day. 🙂
Glad that you still love it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Jim Dunleavy, Bob, ELCB
Guest(s) 54
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today iamnotanoctopus
Upcoming MaceCRO, visionsalchemy, Preanix, EJ-Kisz, laserbrainz, Writer, chendricks, Poke, DeeLight41, Ken Knapp, EricBluegrassFiddle, Zippo, tesfalcon, Skittles, Dan, Ty Pierce, jacarino, Jonand
Top Posters:
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2679
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Kevin M.: 1971
damfino: 1967
cdennyb: 1815
TerryT: 1728
Ferret: 1575
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 27287
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 57
Topics: 8538
Posts: 106040
Newest Members:
silverufcplayer, kimm, Temprance22, Temprance, Stoytchev, aspiringviolinist.10
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 15154, KindaScratchy: 1754, coolpinkone: 4176, BillyG: 3433, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, cid: 2088