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why hasn't anyone ever shown us this before!!!!!!!!!
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (7 votes) 
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eoj02
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July 26, 2012 - 5:35 pm
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I just started violin and have been playing metal guitar for years.  I can actually get a better vibrato on the violin.  I think the motion is easier.  On the guitar, it is a slower bending of the string. 

I've played a fretless guitar and had no luck.  Trying to get multiple strings fretted in exactly the correct position was a pain.

However, I don't think I would purchase a fretted violin.  It just seems wrong.

It is neat to see though.

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Fiddlestix
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July 26, 2012 - 6:51 pm
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Ok,, I apologize for that earlier rediculous post. The vibrato on the guitar is accomplished by bending the strings, not sliding violin style.

            dazed

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Jason
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July 26, 2012 - 8:39 pm
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Another difference is that guitar vibrato moves upward in pitch, while the preferred violin vibrato is down from the note.

Yeah, traditionally guitar vibrato is pretty slow. I do it pretty fast sometimes. I'm kind of obsessive about vibrato, hence the decision to learn violin.

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gkeese
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July 26, 2012 - 8:52 pm
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Late bloomer said
Hey, how about a guitar with out  fretsafro

Or a saxophone that you don't blow in , you just bang it on the ground.afro

Or maybe a banjo that you blow inafro

Sounds like opposite day at bikini bottom. amuse

 

roflol

"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its entire life believing that it is stupid." -Albert Einstein

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DanielB
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I am not entirely sure how he's getting the vibrato in that video.  It looks more like a standard violin vibrato than anything else, but with the angle we're seeing it from, I can't tell.

But I would agree with Jason that it would not be even a particularly fast vibrato on a guitar. 

The thing is that, like violin from what I understand, there is more than one way of doing vibrato on a guitar.  Leaving gadgets like "whammy bars" out of the conversation, what is usually shown in most books I've seen is basically finger vibrato.  Which is where only the movement of the finger stretches the string and is about the slowest.   But you can also use wrist to vibrato and you can also use forearm.  They all accomplish the same basic thing, sliding the string along the fret (across the fingerboard) to change the pitch.  I recorded a quick sample including each of those.  The first is finger, the second is wrist and the third is more forearm but also has some wrist while using very little finger muscle.  For me, the third is my faster option.

 

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"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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Fiddlestix
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July 27, 2012 - 9:06 am
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Ok,,, here's a vid I found showing guitar vibrato... he's pretty fast with it, sounds nice.jimi-hendrix You'll notice he's bending not sliding like violin.

 

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DanielB
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July 27, 2012 - 9:21 am
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No argument on that point.  The only way a guitar would get much of any vibrato from a movement parallel to the strings would be if it had a scalloped fretboard or maybe one could get a little if it had *very* high frets.  There it would be from changing the tension on the string by pressure though, not bending in the usual way.  Still different than violin.

Violin, however *could* vibrato with either type of motion.  I don't think it would be very good for the fingerboard, though.

Still, I'm not quite sure how he is getting vibrato off that fretted violin.  On a side note, it is easy enough to vibrato with a fretless bass guitar (I got to play one of those once), or I would assume with a fretless guitar.  And either parallel or perpendicular motion to the string length works on those.  The motions can even be combined.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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SaraO
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July 27, 2012 - 9:32 am
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Found this youtube vid explaining lots, including vibrato on the fretted violin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....C0OHDSAINk

Btw, my friend has one of the Wood 7-string non-fretted electric violins. I got to play on it a bit. It's crazy!

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DanielB
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Thank you, SaraO.  Wow, that explained a lot.  Seriously nifty.  Though I find the strap a more interesting idea than the frets, actually.  LOL  I can see the point of the frets particularly on like a 7 string violin now, though.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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cpiasminc
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July 27, 2012 - 2:21 pm
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Yeah, I think it boils down to just how tall the frets are in relation to how high the strings are above the fingerboard.  The shallower the frets, the more variation you can get in the pitch between frets since there will be room for the string to float just above a fret without touching it if you're fingering off the position.  Also, in the higher ranges where the frets are closer together, they'd really need to be even more shallow, but in that range, just the difference between fingering on the front of the fret and the back of the fret yields a noticeable pitch difference.  Since you're fingering right on the fret unlike a guitar, this is quite useable.

You look at a guy like U Srinivas, who modified the 5-string electric mandolin, he made similar changes to the fret layout, and he plays vibrato with slides alone, never pulling.  In this version where he's a lot younger, he hadn't yet shaved down the frets to the extent he does nowadays (this video is probably ~30 years old), but even here, he's not pulling.

I do find, though, that pretty shallow frets are more than adequate for the violin.  I happen to keep 3 finger tapes on my board -- just perfect 4th, just perfect 5th, and octave.  I derive every other position from those.  The thing is that simple tape strips are far thinner than any fret, but they're still not flush with the fingerboard, and that thickness is enough for me to get a tactile feel for their presence and catch the note with my eyes shut.

 

@Daniel : I agree about the straps.  I found about the Wood Viper some time back, and I've always found that strap with the chest pad thing.  It pretty much solves so many problems.  I've been working out some designs on paper to try and do something like that for a regular acoustic as well, but it takes some trial and error.

I seriously wish I could afford one of those things, but I got a quote for a 4-string fretless with the "default no-extra-charge" finish and the Wood standard pickup (is it just me, or do other people find the Barbera pickup a little rubbery-sounding?), and it still ran about $1885.  Adding frets brought it up over $2k, but I also was trying to inquire about fretting according to alternate intonations.  I might be willing to spend that kind of scratch when I have about double the cash in the bank as I currently do and about 20x the skill that I currently have, but not before.

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Fiddlestix
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July 27, 2012 - 3:19 pm
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Great video, thanks, SaraO........

That tell's it all.

 

                            THE END.       done

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ftufc
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Thanks so much Sara!  In the past week I've watched about a hundred demo vids of various electrics; everything from the Bridge Aquila, Cecilio, Fender FV3, Foreness Fuse (too $$$), NS WAV4, NS NXT, Wood Viper (too $$$), Wood Stingray SV4, Yamaha 250,,, and I've not seen the vid you put up; that guy did a great job of describing a lot of the questions on this thread.

A lot of these fine manufacturers offer a fretted version now but I still don't know about taking that plunge (remember, I had a difficult time putting fine tuners on my decent violin).  I'd have the same concern I had about becoming dependent on finger charts and not really learning/owning the violin as it was intended to be played.  But, like the guy in the vid said, "why not".  And then, would it be a great learning tool, or make it more difficult to go back to my unfretted.

This has been a great thread though; like I said, I was just dumb founded that I'd never seen them before, when apparently EVERYONE and their dog is making fretted violins now.

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ftufc
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July 27, 2012 - 7:48 pm
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BTW, I just saw earlier today that FM has added some terrific electronics (loop & distortion pedals) to his shop!  Check em out!

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springer
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July 27, 2012 - 9:58 pm
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I once had a sax that I wanted to bang on the ground.dancingdancingdancing

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Mad_Wed
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July 28, 2012 - 3:07 pm
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Thanks, Sara! Nice vid! I don't worry about slides anymore!

bunny_pole_dancerSmoooooooth!

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ftufc
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yeah, that IS smooth Naska  roflol

Okay, so if you saw someone playing a fretted violin, would you think they were a tard or scandalous, or just focus on how well they played it?  And I'm wondering if any pros ever use them.

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SaraO
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July 28, 2012 - 6:45 pm
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Mark Wood, the creator of the Viper fretted violin, seems to be pretty well respected.

http://www.markwoodmusic.com/h...../news.html

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ftufc
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July 28, 2012 - 9:03 pm
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I know, EXACTLY  Sara,,, but he also designed the fretless Viper as well; so I'd have to ask myself,,, did he make both because it should just be a matter of personal preference, or did he design the fretted to help beginners get into his violins.

I might just ask him!

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Kevin M.
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July 28, 2012 - 9:34 pm
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Fred, it couldn't hurt to try and write Mark Wood for an answer to your question.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/MarkWoodMusic

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ftufc
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Thanks Kevin, that is GREAT!  I've just been searching for what might be a successful email address.  I'll let everyone know if I get a response!

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