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Hole in Heart Fractional Viola
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cid
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February 5, 2019 - 5:43 pm
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I actually like the look of that. 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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@cid, I agree with your assessment.  She designed it to be easy to make for rental stock (she currently charges £36/month).  The purfling groves can be easily added with a Dremel router arrangement, although I think that they could be eliminated for further cost reduction.  The scroll adds the necessary acoustic mass counter balance for the fingerboard overhang without time consuming chisel work.

Another thought.  I purchased several second hand 14 inch Chinese import violas a while back thinking that they would make mellow sounding violins.  Although I still think that, I now wonder if they would make an ideal candidate for the hole in the heart procedure.  The fingering positions are obviously identical with a violin and they are inexpensively obtained because of their current acoustic limitations as violas.  A potentially ideal doubling instrument.  

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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February 7, 2019 - 10:13 am
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I like the viola; I just don't like the huge hole in the scroll.

I always wanted to be a juvenile delinquent but my parents wouldn't let me.

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Irv
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February 11, 2019 - 2:16 pm
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I just came across another guitar like violin, this time without purfling.  Looks interesting.DEAA0676-21A9-4F24-8C80-4811ABDD63C9.jpeg2DF71D63-C7FC-4F50-9E4A-A7DF2440C14B.jpeg

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Fiddlerman
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February 11, 2019 - 3:31 pm
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It's amazing how much I learn on this forum. And to think that I run a violin shop and don't see these things. LOL
The hole in heart is interesting, and as Irv wrote, probably not a good idea to try on instruments of value, but interesting just the same.
The hole in the scroll is very interesting and I can't see how it could negatively affect the sound. Would even provide an easy way to hang the violin. LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Irv
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February 11, 2019 - 4:35 pm
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@Fiddlerman and others.  I have a couple of 14” body violas inexpensively obtained, because I assume that an instrument of this size is not acoustically optimum.  However, with the hole in the heart treatment, it may make a worthy doubler and a means where more women can handle the viola.  Seems to me that it is worth a shot.  Your opinion most appreciated. 

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
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February 11, 2019 - 6:42 pm
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@Irv Maybe smaller size men, too? dancing It had to be said! It was begging me. “Cid, say it! Door is WIDE open! Say it, d a r n you, Cid!” begbeg beg

Just having fun with you. We understand what you are saying, and great work. 😂😌 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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February 11, 2019 - 6:51 pm
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@cid and others.  Point taken, but I think that women would welcome the improvement and men would abhor their need for it.  Perhaps not.  

I believe that President Lincoln had a medical condition which give him unusual ligament elasticity.  Just the thing for viola and cello players.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Irv
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February 12, 2019 - 5:14 pm
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Watch it folks, I’m going in.  Just purchased a Fisch Vortex-D brad style precision drill bit which reduces splintering at the hole exit.  And it is made in Austria.  BD541C13-7063-43E9-8BE7-FD795342ABF5.jpeg

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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steveduf
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February 12, 2019 - 5:38 pm
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Looks Wicked

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Irv
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February 12, 2019 - 6:16 pm
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Another development.  I left an email with Stringers of Edinburgh for their opinion of doing a hole in the heart to a 14 inch body viola for use as a doubler instrument.  They seem to be the only shop (that I have found) that does this modification as a standard item of sale.  

I was going to use Corelli Crystal strings to keep in the spirit of the Strad article, but viola examples seem hard to locate.  

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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February 13, 2019 - 5:28 am
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I don't suppose the hole in the scroll does affect the sound, I just don't like the look. Curiously, both those instruments appear to have the same hole, yet I don't think they were made by the same luthier, were they? Is one a copy of the other, or is there some background story to the design?

I always wanted to be a juvenile delinquent but my parents wouldn't let me.

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Irv
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February 13, 2019 - 10:45 am
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@@Gordon Stumway and others.  It was easier to take another photo than explain the schroll’s shape.C783EB2C-9D3F-4896-82D0-B604011157BB.jpeg

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Gordon Shumway
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February 13, 2019 - 12:23 pm
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Yes, I think I prefer that slightly to the outright circular hole.

But it forces us to ask the question, how should a piece of wood end, and why a scroll?

I guess you've Googled for pictures already.

2d820dca2f62582dc736413c0af00f0e.jpg

carved-head-at-the-top-of-a-violin-scroll-violin-labelled-duiffoprugcar-ERE64X.jpgImage Enlarger

2de5c344761c832a70930aea722dba2f--violin.jpg

Cello-scroll-233x300.jpg

I always wanted to be a juvenile delinquent but my parents wouldn't let me.

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Irv
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February 13, 2019 - 12:42 pm
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Hi Gordon.  From what I have read, the mass of the schroll should be equal to the mass of the finger board portion that extends beyond the neck.  In so doing, it increases instrument sustain in the manner of the executive desk toy of suspended metal balls.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
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February 13, 2019 - 1:09 pm
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These are reminding me of the busts at the front (bow?) of the big ships.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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February 13, 2019 - 1:13 pm
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Gordon and others.  Your second picture is a beautiful example of a grafted pegbox.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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Irv
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February 13, 2019 - 4:15 pm
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While we are on unusual scrolls, I found one that projects from the back of the peg box.  The violin was also guitar shaped.5503E633-5121-4C39-80E7-37A5CA98EDB8.jpegImage EnlargerBCE33D05-2C7B-4B97-89C8-3C847B5EFB25.jpegImage Enlarger83EDD21A-F9F1-4967-9421-D6D437DA972F.jpegImage Enlarger

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
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February 13, 2019 - 4:39 pm
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These are fascinating. The part of me that wants to make jobs as easy as possible, keeps thinking that some of those designs, although looking simply fabulous, would make stringing the A string very difficult, or more difficult than it is now. These are neat, and I look forward to seeing what else you dig up.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Irv
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February 13, 2019 - 5:17 pm
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@cid and others.  Now you are confusing me.  Regarding the back facing scroll, it would make positioning The a string in the peg slot very simple.  There is nothing in the way of it.  On a manufacturing level, if the neck were to be made of two glued widths (which is stronger and less prone to warp), the peg box could be milled away instead of chiseled (much more efficient).

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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