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New Group Project(s) for 2020?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (9 votes) 
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cid
June 29, 2020 - 4:00 pm
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Sorry, no way I would be able to do that. That said, if the majority is good with it, I can wait and listen to the final result. We aren't going to be able to meet everyone's needs. The key does not work either. I am really really beginning. No theory or anything here. We haven't done anything with more than two flats or three sharps.

Again, not a problem if this works for the majority.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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grandpafiddle
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I have to agree with you cid. I've played other instruments in my younger days but I'm new to the violin with less than a years experience. I'm catching on very fast and working on my vibrato. I read music, but I've never played anything "opera." I'm more of a fiddler of contemporary, folk, and bluegrass. I think this song would be way over my head. There are hundreds of thousands of songs to choose from out there that can be played in three, four or five part harmony. I think I might have to wait for the next one.

Thanks Pierre for putting all this together for us. My Fiddlerman Master is the sweetest instrument I've ever played. It's my new passion. Have a great day everyone!

grandpaviolin

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Ilona
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June 29, 2020 - 6:32 pm
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Well... Five flats is a lot... I can easily handle pieces with three flats, four if I focus carefully. This is just one more, yeah? But a huge problem for me will be that cello part is going up to very high on treble clef. Ugh. 😳 Anyway, I will try this tomorrow before I say I can’t, let’s see what happens. 

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ELCB
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June 29, 2020 - 6:35 pm
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JUST KIDDING!

I had to look up what a Double Whole Note was.

Is it just me or is there a huge amount of tension in this piece?

Looks scarier on paper than it sounds... I'll try anything (as she jumps off the cliff).

 

- Emily

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AndrewH
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I don't have a problem with it at all, but you probably don't want to use someone who has been playing for 20 years as the standard.

Might want to transpose it (maybe down a half-step to A minor) and cut the note values in half for easier reading? It looks to me like it would need to be arranged into six parts to break up all the double-stops.

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ELCB
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Actually, my goals for this year (my 2nd) on my 5-string is to concentrate on vibrato and double stops 🤗

Recently I've been fascinated with playing Strathspeys - which I suspect is just my avoidance of vibrato 🙄

So, the 2nd Violin or Viola part would be good for me - also, it's still an ongoing struggle to make my C string act like it's part of "the family" 😣

I'm afraid I'd really need an accurate demo video of these individual parts - not just a click-track to practice with 😬

 

- Emily

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Gordon Shumway
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AndrewH said
I don't have a problem with it at all, but you probably don't want to use someone who has been playing for 20 years as the standard.

Might want to transpose it (maybe down a half-step to A minor) and cut the note values in half for easier reading? It looks to me like it would need to be arranged into six parts to break up all the double-stops.

  

It's a more difficult piece than it looks and sounds.

I'm not so sure about transposing it. In bar 56 there's a low G on the violin and a low C on the cello which will need fiddling with, possibly inadvisably; and those who did want to try it in first position on the A string might not appreciate having to go down to a G# on the D string.

Those who avow horror at 5 flats will probably be wanting to play the main theme on the A string in first position, but if they haven't even attempted it, I'd recommend they try, as it might give them some confidence in the key sig.

I had a go at sight-reading it yesterday (if I did contribute, how much practice would I need? How many takes?), and playing pianissimo in high positions on the D string was tricky, although I was having an off-day in general. There are places where the fingering needs to be carefully worked out to facilitate intonation, and I haven't attempted the high passage after bar 46 yet.

Certainly playing to something pre-recorded will be easier than playing to a click track, unless @Fiddlerman has some software to adjust timings (and tunings)!

Andrew

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AndrewH
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That's what I was trying to say earlier -- that it's a really tough piece. Even for advanced players, because of bow distribution. I've read it before in a quartet. I don't mind the five flats at all (I routinely play key signatures with 5, 6, or 7 sharps/flats), but most of the people who are likely to want to participate have not been playing for 20 years.

No matter what, it's going to have to be transposed and simplified to get an appreciable number of participants, given that most of the people who have participated in past projects have been beginner to intermediate students.

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cid
July 2, 2020 - 8:46 am
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I would be doing a cello, and this is what I think my issues will be, through the eyes of someone who has not played in any orchestra or played for years:

Fingering

The issues I am having or perceiving are the upper positions. I have done up to the B on the A  string (7th position, I think) and a little up to the C. I still have to fiddle a bit to get it even close. Not sure if there would be enough time to get it down. 

On the A string I am comfortable attempting up to the 7th (?) position B.

On the D string I am comfortable attempting up to the 4th position B. The same position on the G string.

I have issues fingering the positions beyond third on the C and G strings, it is very weak. There may not be any in this piece.

I would be really off on intonation, most likely. Although, I may surprise myself. 

The double stops would either be the lower or higher notes. It depends on the stretch to get both notes. I am working on stretching at the moment. I also have issues angling my bow for two notes. I listened too well when being told to do one string when I had my very first lesson 😁.

Time Signatures

I have no idea what these are in this piece and how to count for them, or how to change from one time signature to another. 

Key

The key looks scary, but the C flat is a B, etc. I just have to go through it and write down notes. I can jot notes on my sheet music to remind me. Basically, break it down.

My Main Issue

The main issue will be how much time we have. I have lesson work to do, also. So, the deadline date would be important.

I have no problem trying to do this. It would be a really super learning piece. I would love to try it, but, if the time span would not work, I don’t want to start and then miss it.

The cello part, on its own, looks simple enough, on the surface. Mostly whole notes. I am concerned with the quarter notes in the upper register and hitting them correctly, because I have not been there much. It seems to be mostly in an area where I have never been. I am not sure I would be able to decipher if I am playing flat, sharp or anywhere near the note when listening to it. 

My instructor touched on those upper register notes but I can’t remember what we were doing. I think he said to bow closer to the bridge for those, if I am remembering correctly. I think we were actually talking about bow position and that was at least a year ago. I asked a question, if I recall. He then played a piece that was in those higher A string registers to show me. It was beautiful. But, we have not ventured there on any pieces. 

Am I interested in trying it? YES, I really am. If I have time to do it, this would be such a great learning piece. I don’t recall doing my cello for a group project. I will need a long time to do this, though. It would need to be more than a month. This is nothing like we are currently working on in my lessons, so I really can’t ask to use it for lesson material. If it was using what we are working on, I would do that. With a half hour to cover lesson material, I really can’t use any lesson time for it.

So, here  are my thoughts.

Break it down.

Make notes about what all those flats really are and  turn those notes into what you are familiar with (ie the C flat is just a B) to simplify it and take the “scary” out of all of those flats, while remembering what you are really playing and what key so you can learn it by sight in that key. Great learning piece.

Pay attention to the upper registers. 

Figure out the most efficient and effective fingering, most likely might not be in first position. Might be an upper register on the lower string. 

Just get the fingering down and then worry about the changing time signatures, and what those time signatures actually are saying. 

If having an issue with time, make a quick video and ask for assistance on the forum with someone playing it on their instrument, my cello part, so it would be the same.

Hope for a long time frame for submission.

Make  NOTES, NOTES, NOTES

I actually give this a 👍if I can have time to try it. Looks like an almost doable challenge, I can fake where I have not improved in time. Just bow.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Gordon Shumway
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July 2, 2020 - 9:15 am
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Then there are the recording techniques. I'm currently doing this for the first time for a friend's band, recording a harmonica track, and it's Hell on Earth.

My machine can't or won't install Garageband. I think the best way seems to be to import their mp3 sample track into Audacity, add a new track, then delete their track before saving the project, as Audacity won't save anything with imported mp3s as an Audacity project, just as another unmixable mp3! No, my mistake, Audacity's message looks like a refusal, but in fact it's just a warning!

It's giving me a nervous breakdown, and I'm way behind schedule.

Andrew

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
July 2, 2020 - 10:40 am
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Oh man, Alf @Gordon Shumway  - I KNOW the pain !!!

Years back (before the great software of today) - I mixed down 6 tracks using a 4-track Tascam cassette-tape mixing device.  It worked, but, for sure, hair pulling time, that's a fact - MANY late nights for a whole week !!!!

I now use a DAW ( tried several, and ended up using REAPER - demo is fully functional (not crippled in any way at all) for a full 60 days - and, indeed, I've now purchased it.

For what you are doing, it sounds to me as if you don't need the full functionality of a DAW, but, it has darned-near everything you might need.   Just a thought - although if that sort of tech is "new to you" its documentation may initially seem "obscure" for want of a better word....  Just the terminology used, I mean...

Yeah- possibly check out a DAW of some sort - Reaper, LMMS - well - may depend what platform you're on as well of course - but the learning-curve is worth the investment of effort.

And - yes - I have used ( and still use ) Audacity widely, for many varied purposes - it's a fine engineering-level tool, but no longer use it for mixing tracks !

In fact - following a search - this was the very one - the "PortaStudio 414" - although I'm pretty much sure mine was black plastic....  same thing though... LOL- Happy Days indeed... ( well, not at the time ! ) 

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Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Gordon Shumway
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I read that DAWs are making real mixing desks cheap (second hand), but I wouldn't know where to get one, and once the pots get noisy and need replacing, I don't know how easy or expensive that will be. How much does Reaper cost? (lol, I've never paid for software, so that's a new terror for me!).

But this machine is almost certainly not a good enough platform. It has 6GB of RAM, but no video or sound card, so things can stop and start rather alarmingly (and AVG Free isn't helping), and it's a bit physically broken. If I had the money for good equipment, I think I might prefer to spend it on a bow (assuming it won't buy me a fiddle)!

Andrew

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GregW
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July 2, 2020 - 10:55 am
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Gordon Shumway said
Then there are the recording techniques. I'm currently doing this for the first time for a friend's band, recording a harmonica track, and it's Hell on Earth.

My machine can't or won't install Garageband. I think the best way seems to be to import their mp3 sample track into Audacity, add a new track, then delete their track before saving the project, as Audacity won't save anything with imported mp3s as an Audacity project, just as another unmixable mp3! No, my mistake, Audacity's message looks like a refusal, but in fact it's just a warning!

It's giving me a nervous breakdown, and I'm way behind schedule.

  

Alf i would suggest converting the mp3 to wav...but the way these things go is that youd probably spend spending half an hour searching for the freeware on internet to do the conversiin...another half downloading after a couple of internet inturruptions...then the install would put an outdated version of some c++ library which would crash the install a couple if times.. then an hour figuring out that the freeware doesnt actually export any files..you have to spend 79.00 on the full version.  so i wont suggest that.  it happens

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Gordon Shumway
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I think I'm OK now. I just needed to get my feet wet.

Andrew

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Peter
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Gordon Shumway said
I read that DAWs are making real mixing desks cheap (second hand), but I wouldn't know where to get one, and once the pots get noisy and need replacing, I don't know how easy or expensive that will be...

  

Pots can be cleaned of track dust (the product of wear) by washing out with IPA or surgical spirit. This would make a pre-loved desk viable again, if you have the space. Slider pots are easier to clean than rotaries. The only show-stopper is where high ingress protection pots have been used; most however have handy crimp holes and gaps around the contact frame.

The same holds true for older, well-used amplifiers. Just wash out the pots to remove the crackle. There will come a point where the wiper no longer makes adeqaute contact with the track, but that's rare on amps (less so on desks).

Finding redundant desks will mandate industry contacts (I have none of note nowadays, but will ask around).

Peter

"It is vain to do with more that which can be done with less"  - William of Ockham

"A crown is merely a hat that lets the rain in" - Frederick the Great

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Ilona
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July 2, 2020 - 11:19 am
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cid said
The issues I am having or perceiving are the upper positions. I have done up to the B on the A string (7th position, I think) and a little up to the C.

Me too. This is where I can comfortable reach, but bars 50-52 in the cello part looks just no, no, no for me. I have no idea how I could find that G. Maybe I just add some stickers under the string. 😃 

Some of those double stops was easy, some not. I’m not afraid to practice them, but would feel much comfortable to play just the lower or higher note. 

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BillyG
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July 2, 2020 - 11:30 am
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Gordon Shumway said
......How much does Reaper cost? (lol, I've never paid for software, so that's a new terror for me!).

....

LOL Alf @Gordon Shumway - yeah the REAPER DAW is totally, unreservedly, uncrippled and free for 60 days.

It then costs, as I recall, about USD $60 - and - indeed there is still a "catch" ( well, it's not, it's actually reasonably fair) - once paid - you will never be stopped from using it - it will not be blocked or anything -and - you will get automatic updates (for new stuff, new effects, plug-ins, VST instrument and JS stuff) free for effectively the "Release version you purchased, plus all automatic updates throughout the next major version"

I purchased at Version 6.1 something (call it x), it HAS been updated, and it's now 6.1xC  - and I will continue to get every update to the end of version 7/ ( And of course, what I have will still work anyway then).  The updates are usually related to minor changes in the user interface,how things interact with the user, and, as I mentioned, new stuff added like effects, signal processing plug-ins and so on)

And, - for a short term use - well - effectively - it's free. Just so long as you processing platform can handle it -which might well be an issue with no sound-card or video support !!!  LOL

Nevertheless, Alf, I thought, since you asked, I'd just talk through what it was, and how it's costed and marketed...

Good luck with your project there !!!!

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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cid
July 2, 2020 - 12:01 pm
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@Ilona You can just play one of the notes in the double stop, so don't worry about it.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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BillyG
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July 2, 2020 - 12:21 pm
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Yes, once again - sorry about the off-thread-chat !! ( It was Alf, LOLOLOL - hey Alf, j/k with you- it's NEVER a problem -we ALL do it ! )

LOL - it happens very easily - and - indeed - I kind of like that free-flow....  then again, sure, it distracts from the original poster's topic...

And I understand that- especially with detailed answers - *something* in the detail of an earlier response will "trigger" a response in my head - and - well -I'll jump in !!!!!!

At least it's not as bad as the "open-season" on FB and IG posts !!!! LOLOL

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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GregW
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@billyg reaper looks great.  what kind of audio interface are you using?  Im sure youve said somewhere but i forgot.

also..while on that topic..spitfireaudio.com has a bunch of high quality FREE or almost at 28.00 plugins.  Look under the LABS sectiin.  Also, theyre in Britain so there wont be any restrictions to international purchases.  ive been meaning to bring it up but forgot till we got off on daw subject.  These arent shareware, they just provide some stripped down versions of their larger products.

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