FORUM

Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
How much money to spend?
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 8:15 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Speaking only of us amateurs,

I think we have perhaps all wondered at some time or other how much money we should spend on a violin. It probably depends simply on our budget.

But have you ever wondered about the bow?

If I'd stayed as an amateur oboist, I'd have bought a bottom rung professional oboe - almost certainly a Rigoutat, £6,000 at current prices. So I could say, by that reasoning I should budget £6,000 for a violin.

But then I realised that in some ways the bow is more interesting than the violin. Would it be £6,000 including bow, £6,000 plus bow?

I could see myself as an amateur walking around with a £6,000 oboe or violin, but I'd find it much harder to justify walking around with a £2,000 bow. I'd feel uneasy. I'd feel a fake. Or would I quickly get used  to it?

So if I forget entirely about the violin and wonder how much I feel I could justify spending on a bow, it's a harder and more interesting question. Has it ever occurred to you to ask it? I can picture myself with perhaps an £800 Coda, top limit. And that might determine how expensive a violin I buy. It's going to be about £3,000, I suppose.

Totally thinking silly thoughts out loud here. Comment in any way you like.

Andrew

Avatar
cid
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 8:51 am
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 1056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Strange you should start this thread. The other day I was wondering a little more seriously about a better bow for my violin. When I upgraded my cello a little bit ago, I upgraded the bow. Was not my intention, but my husband said to try some higher end bows. I am always partial and more comfortable with the wood bows. I tried some bows without knowing what I was trying, as far as level of quality goes. I kept going back to one particular pernambuco bow. Since I was getting it with the cello, I got a very good discount. My bowing has improved since that bow. This could be due to the cello, or the bow, or a combination. I try my other bows, with not as good as a result on the same cello, so maybe the bow has more of an impact?

The other day I was thinking I should upgrade my violin bow, a little more seriously than I had thought about it in the past. I like my bows, but I do long for the wood, and a little more weight. I have inexpensive wood bows. They are fairly light in weight. The weight is an issue for me, but the feel is better than the carbon for me. I am thinking maybe next year.

I start violin lessons again this week. I think that I should wait until I have advanced a little more. But then I think a bow I am more comfortable with would help with advancing. Since I am not in the market for a new violin and not interested in upgrading my Doetsch, I would not not get the nice discount you get at this shop when you buy the accessories when you buy the instrument. 

I think of the violin bow as often when playing my cello with this upgraded cello bow, as I do when playing my violin with my violin bow. 

I prefer the bow that came with my Concert Deluxe when I play my Concert Deluxe violin, but my Doetsch does not seem as happy with any of the bows. So, the bow would be for the Doetsch. I wonder why the two violins react differently to the same bow. Apparently, the bow makes a big difference?

 Probably upgrade my bow next year, when, hopefully, my playing improves.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 12:03 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 396
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I tried out a bow at the local shop and it was like my hand and arm WERE the bow.  Like the bow wasn't there.  The bow and I became as one...OHHHHMMMM...blurry_drunk-2127 A real Zen moment. Or possibly faking myself into believing that.  I'll never know now because  I Couldn't afford it since I was wanting to upgrade the violin soon.  I'm wondering if maybe a higher end bow is the more important purchase.  Maybe a person should have to pass a test to become a certified violinist or fiddler to make sure they aren't over spending.  Probably the only way to save us from ourselves and inflicting auditory harm to countless others.  Thankfully that descion is still mine and when I feel comfortable with throwing more money at my hobby I'm probably going after a hybrid type bow.  Codas seem popular and will try those out.  Possibly one of the fiddlershop brands.

Avatar
x Coach
Member
Members
August 21, 2019 - 12:48 pm
Member Since: November 22, 2018
Forum Posts: 44
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have become addicted to fiddlerman videos on YouTube. I would not think about upgrading so often if I would stop watching them. I have a soloist violin. My next upgrade will be the 3 star Holstein bow when finances permit. Yes Pierre, I know it’s on sale now!

Avatar
Pete_Violin
Utah
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 12:53 pm
Member Since: March 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 351
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Gordon Shumway said
Speaking only of us amateurs,

I think we have perhaps all wondered at some time or other how much money we should spend on a violin. It probably depends simply on our budget.

Budget plays a significant part, certainly... Especially when you are talking about 1000's of pounds/dollars.  Instrument quality and how long you will play the instrument are extremely important factors as well.

But have you ever wondered about the bow?

So if I forget entirely about the violin and wonder how much I feel I could justify spending on a bow, it's a harder and more interesting question. Has it ever occurred to you to ask it? I can picture myself with perhaps an £800 Coda, top limit. And that might determine how expensive a violin I buy. It's going to be about £3,000, I suppose.  

When I first purchased my violin it came with a "beginner" bow, which was just fine, as I was a beginner.  If I had put a lot of money into the bow at the time, it wouldn't be a waste of money, per se, but the reality is that a beginner would not be able to tell the difference anyway.  

I did upgrade my bow after about a year of playing.  I still have not spent $1000's but I did find there was quite a difference, and I was able to learn a lot about bow quality.  This bow is a composite... the next bow will be wood, and I probably will be spending quite a bit but I will not need to do that for some time.

@Gordon Shumway 

I did respond to your question, by the way.

- Pete -

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 1:08 pm
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Pete_Violin said

@Gordon Shumway 

I did respond to your question, by the way. 

I saw it. Thanks.

Andrew

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 1:09 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 396
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

x Coach said
I have become addicted to fiddlerman videos on YouTube. I would not think about upgrading so often if I would stop watching them. I have a soloist violin. My next upgrade will be the 3 star Holstein bow when finances permit. Yes Pierre, I know it’s on sale now!

  

Its like they knoooww.  Big mistake subscribing to the youtube channel.  Annnd as I save this post..Michael's new review of something..lol.  Lets see what wizardry theyve spun..

Avatar
MoonShadows
Stroudsburg, PA
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 1:33 pm
Member Since: January 30, 2019
Forum Posts: 448
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

x Coach said
Yes Pierre, I know it’s on sale now!

  

I'm afraid to look. Last time there was a sale at Fiddlershop, I bought a new bow. 

Jim

Fiddling for Older Folks - Adventures in Learning to Play the Fiddle as an Adult

The Friends of the Sons of Liberty - Three Inspiring Young Men playing Early American Fiddle Music 

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
August 21, 2019 - 3:54 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 14652

x Coach said
I have become addicted to fiddlerman videos on YouTube. I would not think about upgrading so often if I would stop watching them. I have a soloist violin. My next upgrade will be the 3 star Holstein bow when finances permit. Yes Pierre, I know it’s on sale now!

LOL. Time to get one!!! 😁 No excuses.... Just kidding. Send me a PM in the future if you are in the market.

GregW said

fx Coach said

I have become addicted to fiddlerman videos on YouTube. I would not think about upgrading so often if I would stop watching them. I have a soloist violin. My next upgrade will be the 3 star Holstein bow when finances permit. Yes Pierre, I know it’s on sale now!

Its like they knoooww.  Big mistake subscribing to the youtube channel.  Annnd as I save this post..Michael's new review of something..lol.  Lets see what wizardry theyve spun..  

exactly

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 21, 2019 - 11:28 pm
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Gordon Shumway said

Pete_Violin said

@Gordon Shumway 

I did respond to your question, by the way. 

I saw it. Thanks.  

However, for me it raised the question, what is the climate in Utah?

I thought it might be hot desert, and it is, but also it's very cold in winter. Was it for the winter that dark rosin was recommended?

Andrew

Avatar
cid
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 7:27 am
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 1056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

If I remember correctly, the dark was for hot humid Summer. If, I remember correctly. I was recommended dark this Summer. 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 7:45 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

cid said
If I remember correctly, the dark was for hot humid Summer. If, I remember correctly. I was recommended dark this Summer. 

My understanding is the opposite: in the hot summer, you want a rosin that melts less freely, so the pale hard stuff, and in the winter when all is cold and stiff, you want a softer rosin, so the dark stuff.

Andrew

Avatar
cid
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 8:29 am
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 1056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ah, cello is different. Just checked. The thicker strings like the darker. That was from two sites, but could be wrong. When I had issues a while back I was recommended the darker for my cello due to the heat. It did help. 

With the violin it did say, light in Summer, but depends on humidity.

I liked the rosin and tried it on a violin bow and it was not very good. I bet that is why. Not really bad, but not very good. Hard to bow. I usually put that cause on me when it is not extremely bad.

One of the articles said bass likes super sticky rosin because their strings are really thick and need the grip. I guess this makes sense. 

When I think about it, the Violin/Viola/Cello bow mixed dark rosins are not solid dark. They are like a semi dark. I figure dark would be opaque. Jade is for all, but not really really dark. I think of dark rosins as looking almost black. I think the rosins for the three instruments are a compromise for them all, maybe?

I found that the light rosins I had were very dusty. Did not like them. My dark that I bought for my cello is not dusty. Although it is labeled as dark, it is not opaque. I have seen darker. I think it is called dark as relative to its lighter sister rosin? I do notice I am switching depending on humidity. Took me a while to figure that one out. I am back to my dark again on my cello due to a streak of humidity again. When the humidity lessens I use the Guillaume most of the time for my cello.

I have my first hour violin lesson tomorrow, so I am going to have to fiddle around today and figure out which rosin will be best. I am not sure if it is my bowing that isnthe issue or if my rosin is the reason for my bowing.

I have Jade, Pirastro Evah Pirazzi Gold, P. Guillaume, Kapal Dark (like it for my cello, not so much on my violin), Holstein Premium (works good on my violin), and Fiddlerman Select Rosin (came with my Concert Deluxe, which was neat because that was what I was going to get with a future order.). Some are better on my cello, some better on my violin/viola.

Right now, I am liking the Fiddlerman Select rosin. Have been using it with the Concert Deluxe violin.

Wonder if the violin makes a difference? I was using it with the Concert Deluxe with the Kaplan Amo strings. Nice combination. My Doetsch still has its original mix. I know it is a Passione E (love that string). Have not tried the Fiddlerman Select on the bow I use with that violin. Will experiment with the Fiddlerman bow that already has that rosin, today. 

But, you are right with violin, the light in the summer heat for the most part, but humid or dry plays a part in the decision, too.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 8:51 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I just an hour ago ordered some Guillaume after watching a Nicola Benedetti video where she says, "Guillaume is the best rosin." (lol)

Andrew

Avatar
cid
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 9:10 am
Member Since: December 26, 2018
Forum Posts: 1056
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I like it. That is what the violin shop I go to uses. It is on the table in the studio.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

Avatar
Pete_Violin
Utah
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 12:11 pm
Member Since: March 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 351
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Gordon Shumway said
 

However, for me it raised the question, what is the climate in Utah?

I thought it might be hot desert, and it is, but also it's very cold in winter. Was it for the winter that dark rosin was recommended?

  

Gordon Shumway said

cid said

If I remember correctly, the dark was for hot humid Summer. If, I remember correctly. I was recommended dark this Summer. 

My understanding is the opposite: in the hot summer, you want a rosin that melts less freely, so the pale hard stuff, and in the winter when all is cold and stiff, you want a softer rosin, so the dark stuff.

  

@Gordon Shumway @cid 

I don't really know how this works... I have heard about using light rosin for humid summers... I believe this is a general rule of thumb.

However, when we applied the dark rosin, it was so much better...

Utah is an arid, desert climate.  Humidity is generally down around 25% average and temperatures are in the high 80s, low 90's (26, 32 celsius). 

I have no explanation

- Pete -

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 1:08 pm
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 680
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You say you are using Pirastro Violinos. They are silver wound. I don't know if this is common. Who knows, perhaps silver is slippery and needs darker rosin? (that would be awkward for my Dominants, which have a silver G string and the rest aluminium!)

Anyway, speculation aside, the lesson I have taken away from this is to wipe both my bows, put a tiny amount of rosin on them and not re-rosin until they slip on the strings. It takes a long time for that to happen, in fact!

Andrew

Avatar
GregW
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 1:22 pm
Member Since: February 10, 2019
Forum Posts: 396
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Gordon Shumway said
You say you are using Pirastro Violinos. They are silver wound. I don't know if this is common. Who knows, perhaps silver is slippery and needs darker rosin? (that would be awkward for my Dominants, which have a silver G string and the rest aluminium!)

Anyway, speculation aside, the lesson I have taken away from this is to wipe both my bows, put a tiny amount of rosin on them and not re-rosin until they slip on the strings. It takes a long time for that to happen, in fact!

This makes sense.  I was using way too much..like everytime I played.  Here very recently Ive started to wait for the bow to start sliding around and then rosin a bit.  Everything on this instrument seems to be difficult to figure out what the sweet spot is.  

Avatar
Pete_Violin
Utah
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2019 - 2:09 pm
Member Since: March 25, 2018
Forum Posts: 351
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Gordon Shumway
Correct, I have Pirastro Violinos.  I have no idea if the silver needs this specific rosin.  I do know that Pirastro recommends the dark rosin for the Violinos... In fact, Pirastro has a Violino rosin they make for these strings and it is dark.

@GregW 
Indeed... these are challenging instruments!!  But they are so worth it!  I love everything about them.

- Pete -

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 424
Currently Online: Jim Dunleavy
133
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming coolpinkone, Fiddlestix, cdennyb, ErViolista, zander7, Helene, Panda-P, OP Alaraasakka, ryonass
Top Posters:
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2673
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
Kevin M.: 1969
damfino: 1937
cdennyb: 1814
TerryT: 1726
Ferret: 1575
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 26919
Moderators: 0
Admins: 8
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 58
Topics: 8017
Posts: 99872
Newest Members:
BradleyVex, MartinShard, ThomasPenia, Tailand-hoamn, GamesplaySmuts, alvinxl11
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 14652, KindaScratchy: 1737, coolpinkone: 4169, BillyG: 2976, MrsFiddlerman: 1, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, SimplePressHelp: 0, peopleshost: 0