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Rosin technical data
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Pete_Violin
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July 26, 2019 - 5:38 pm
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Ah ok

Well, the Pirastro Gold is like their top of the line, most expensive rosin. But maybe it is worth it.

- Pete -

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cid
July 26, 2019 - 6:11 pm
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It does last a long time. They sent me a regular size piece that you get when purchasing. Based on that sample use, I would buy it when I need more. I think that was the purpose of the free sample. Got me hooked on it. I would not pay that price if I have not already used it. I think you will like it.

If you think you need one a tad softer, Fiddlerman is a tad softer. 

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Pete_Violin
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July 26, 2019 - 6:24 pm
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Actually, I really do not know what is best on my strings.

I am using Hidersine.  It is a low price rosin.  For my playing, which is about an hour a day, I am rosining my bow about once a week.  That seems average to me.  But I have noticed that my A and E strings are a little scratchy, especially playing softer and I am wondering if I upgraded my rosin if that might help.

I do see what you mean about price... the amount of rosin used makes the price somewhat irrelevant.

- Pete -

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Irv
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July 26, 2019 - 6:51 pm
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Did someone call?

As I remember, diluted rosin is what was used to knock off Socrates.  Nasty way to go.

I am not so sure that the gold leaf in the rosin I have is fake.  I was not too impressed with it on horse hair, but it sure added visually when I used some to make my diy peg drops.

Research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I’m doing.  —Werner von Braun

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.         —Frank Zappa

Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first and the lesson after.

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cid
July 26, 2019 - 7:22 pm
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@Pete_Violin  The problem is that you could spend that much money and then find it does not work for you. Maybe the issue is the bowing? I am just asking. I have no clue. I did not buy my sample, it was sent. Just something to consider. Buying it planning on a long time use and finding you don’t like it. Probably just made it hard on you. 

Have you tried Jade? The dark green. It is cello/violin/viola. Or that P Guillaume. I think that was $15 at the violin shop I  go to. The strings also affect which rosin, I believe. Pirastro told me to use the Evah Gold with Obligato Strings, too.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Pete_Violin
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cid said
@Pete_Violin  The problem is that you could spend that much money and then find it does not work for you. Maybe the issue is the bowing? I am just asking. I have no clue. I did not buy my sample, it was sent. Just something to consider. Buying it planning on a long time use and finding you don’t like it. Probably just made it hard on you. 

Have you tried Jade? The dark green. It is cello/violin/viola. Or that P Guillaume. I think that was $15 at the violin shop I  go to. The strings also affect which rosin, I believe. Pirastro told me to use the Evah Gold with Obligato Strings, too.

  

First, don't worry about telling me it could be my skills.  Bowing is very possibly the issue and I do work on my tone constantly.  I welcome the advise and reminder that ultimately my sound comes from how I play and less from what I use.

I do want to make sure that my cheap rosin isn't contributing to the problem.

- Pete -

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cid
July 26, 2019 - 11:34 pm
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What strings do you have on your violin? Maybe Google what the best rosin is for that string brand? Or maybe Google, “How to prevent scratchy A and E string on violin” and you can get more ideas as to the issue? 

Just trying to help find more directions for you to look into before you end out with 3-4 different rosins. I have a hard time tracking down the cause of issues.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Gordon Shumway
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pchoppin said
I am using Hidersine.  It is a low price rosin.  For my playing, which is about an hour a day, I am rosining my bow about once a week.

  

Ditto.

...I do see what you mean about price... the amount of rosin used makes the price somewhat irrelevant.

My teacher claims to have used two cakes of Hidersine rosin in 30 years of professional viola playing. If that's true, you can easily afford Leatherwood at that rate, and indeed she has come back from a workshop in Cremona enthusing about more expensive rosin - I think they gave her a block of Leatherwood free.

But every time I think I understand Hidersine's numbering system, I discover I'm wrong.

They do 1V, 3V, 6V for violin and viola and 1C, 3C and 6C for cello. 3 is amber and 6 is dark, and I assumed 1 was light, but now a closer inspection of their website indicates that 6 is for steel strings (!?), 3 is a smaller amber cake, and 1 is a bigger amber cake!? If they say so. I've got some 3V and some 6V, and I've just ordered some 1V to confirm it.

Andrew

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Pete_Violin
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cid said
What strings do you have on your violin? Maybe Google what the best rosin is for that string brand? Or maybe Google, “How to prevent scratchy A and E string on violin” and you can get more ideas as to the issue? 

Just trying to help find more directions for you to look into before you end out with 3-4 different rosins. I have a hard time tracking down the cause of issues.

  

@cid 

I am using Pirastro Violino strings.  These are good strings... in the upper end for Pirastro, but not quite the quality of Obligato.  They are ideal for my violin though because of the tone they produce.  Admittedly, they have been on my violin for over a year and it may be time to replace them.

Of course Pirastro recommends their Pirastro Violino rosin for these strings...  surprise!!!!  And they may be right.  I may try that rosin.  I may replace my strings as well and change to this rosin.

As far as advise for why strings sound funny?  There's plenty.  This site has several things to check.  And many are my own bowing and fingering techniques, which I am very willing to take a look at.

I suspect it is likely a combination of several factors including my technique, possibly rosin and possibly old strings.

- Pete -

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cid
July 30, 2019 - 6:26 pm
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I have been trying to be a little more firm with my fingering, without drilling my fingers through the fingerboard. I think one of my issues is that at times I just don’t touch the strings firm enough, with cello, violin and viola. Most often it is because I am not quite so sure I am in the right place. I have found that that got rid of a lot of my raspy sounding notes. It was quite affective when I played my cello today. I paid a lot of attention to it. So, fingering can be an issue too. It is really bad with the C and G on the cello because they are so fat and such a reach. Plus, I have not done any songs where they are heavily used.

I will check out your link tomorrow. Probably has some things I am doing wrong, or just not doing listed! Thanks. I so want to get that smooth clear sound. I think my rosin is one issue. I ordered D’Addario Kaplan Dark from Fiddlerman yesterday. It has been shipped. This was recommended by D’Addario. If it doesn’t solve the issue of the rosin part of my problems, the contact said to email back and he will check with other of their professional staff. Very helpful information in my issue with my rosin from him. Can’t wait to get it.

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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AndrewH
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July 30, 2019 - 9:58 pm
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I used to believe that rosin didn't especially matter, until I dropped and shattered my rosin cake last October. I had been using Hill Dark on my viola for 18 years up to that point. My local shop didn't have Hill Dark in stock and I needed rosin immediately, so I went with Jade, which seemed to be a bit of an upgrade (a few dollars more expensive and got good reviews)... the difference was dramatic. Articulation got much easier immediately, especially on the low strings.

But I think the amount of rosin on your bow may matter even more than the type of rosin. Many string players over-rosin, which can cause scratchiness. I use only two or three bow strokes across the rosin cake at a time. With Hill Dark, I apply rosin every 2-3 hours of playing time; with Jade, I apply rosin every 1-2 hours of playing time.

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Gordon Shumway
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AndrewH said
I use only two or three bow strokes across the rosin cake at a time. With Hill Dark, I apply rosin every 2-3 hours of playing time; with Jade, I apply rosin every 1-2 hours of playing time.  

Little and often, lol. I have read many people complain that Jade doesn't last long enough.

Forgive me if I repeat myself - I can't remember what I said elsewhere, but it might be a good place to summarise, since this is a current thread and anything I've misconstrued so far can be corrected.

I've been using dark rosin because Pierre recommended it.

I've got Hidersine 6V, Hill dark, Royal Oak. I had some Kaplan, but it got smashed.

I tried Jade, didn't particularly like it. Ditched it. Wish I hadn't - I'm inexperienced and stupid. When I'm experienced, Jade might strike me very differently, as it does Andrew. It's cheap enough to buy some more, but that would make me feel doubly stupid, especially if I didn't like it the second time around either, lol!

My teacher has been using Hidersine for 30 years but has now decided that more expensive rosins are worth it. I don't know if she uses amber or dark. Amber is more likely to last that long: she used 2 cakes in 30 years (she can be a bit ditzy, so that may be an exaggeration, but only a mild one). 

Hidersine's small print says their dark was mainly developed for steel strings.

So we could all try some expensive amber rosin. We can all afford Leatherwood at my teacher's rate of use.

(But it's a matter of taste too - Pierre likes dark rosin because it lets him dig into the strings. I add this because I realised this post seems to call his judgement into question).

Otoh, my teacher's reappraisal came in Cremona, where the climate was different from London's, so it may still be inconclusive! Pierre may have developed his taste for dark rosin during a Swedish winter (lol!), otoh, he's been in Florida for a decade or more now. Otoh, he may have turbo-charged air-con!

Andrew

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AndrewH
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YMMV may vary with climate, of course. I've done almost all of my playing in California. Although it gets hot here, we rarely have any real humidity.

That said, I use Hill Light on my violin. A light rosin seems to work well for playing violin when I'm so used to viola technique.

Strangely, I had never heard of Hidersine before you joined this forum and mentioned it, even though I've played in orchestras almost continuously since 2001. I don't think I've ever seen Hidersine rosins in any shop I've been to.

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Gordon Shumway
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AndrewH said
Strangely, I had never heard of Hidersine before you joined this forum and mentioned it, even though I've played in orchestras almost continuously since 2001. I don't think I've ever seen Hidersine rosins in any shop I've been to.  

Although they claim to be world famous, I wouldn't be surprised if they are unknown outside the UK. I received some 1V today. It is indeed amber and a little bit bigger than a 3V cake, which is the same colour (whereas 6V is dark and the same size as 1V). I can't imagine what the point might be.

If @cid wants something slightly less sticky, she could try 1V instead of 1C

(I'm guessing that humidity doesn't matter - temperature is what matters. If rosin were hygroscopic, I'd be surprised. Otoh, horsehair may be hygroscopic, but then you'd need a stickier rosin in a hot humid summer for it to stick to the damper horsehair?)

Andrew

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Pete_Violin
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So I visited my Luthier...

Here's what he said...

My Hidersine rosin was the wrong rosin... plus I had too much on my bow.

He cleaned my bow hair... the rosin he recommends is Hill Dark Rosin.  We rosined my bow...  Now the strings are no longer making the hissing sound as before.

He also adjusted my bridge and sound post to line up properly.. they were slightly off.

My violin sounds so awesome...

- Pete -

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cid
August 5, 2019 - 5:05 pm
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You are set and ready to go!

They call me, “Mellow Cello” 

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Fiddlerman
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Good deal @Pete_Violin.
Happy to hear it!

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Gordon Shumway
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pchoppin said
So I visited my Luthier...

Here's what he said...

My Hidersine rosin was the wrong rosin... plus I had too much on my bow.

He cleaned my bow hair... the rosin he recommends is Hill Dark Rosin.  We rosined my bow...  Now the strings are no longer making the hissing sound as before.

He also adjusted my bridge and sound post to line up properly.. they were slightly off.

My violin sounds so awesome...

  

Very interesting and curious. I just bought a new bow (Delille Hybrid, £240). My old bow is a Col Legno Standard (£140). I like the Col Legno a lot more.

The Delille's sound is a lot less focused and more hissy. My first instinct was that the rosining had to be identical on both before I could judge them fairly. Then I wondered if new bows need to settle. Then I wondered, would that mean a rehair would need to settle too?

In what way was your Hidersine rosin wrong, because it was Hidersine, because it was amber?

I've been using Hidersine dark, Hidersine amber, Hill dark and Royal Oak Classic (Amber. I love it - I'm going to try Larsen's other products some time).

So maybe it's time to clean both bows and abandon Hidersine for a while; but my teacher has a £6,000 pernambuco bow and a Col Legno as backup, so maybe Col Legnos are just excellent bows for the money!

Andrew

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Gordon Shumway
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Gordon Shumway said

pchoppin said

...my Luthier...said...

My Hidersine rosin was the wrong rosin... 

In what way was your Hidersine rosin wrong, because it was Hidersine, because it was amber?

  

Sorry to press you, @Pete_Violin , but I am interested in the answer to the above question.

Andrew

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Pete_Violin
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Sorry @Gordon Shumway I just got on Fiddlerman and saw this...

So I guess it would be better to explain what happened that day, and why we suspected the rosin at all...

I arrived at the violin shop... this is where I originally purchased my violin.  I only go to see this luthier.  He knows all about my violin.

I explained what I am hearing and he immediately told me that it is likely my rosin or my bowing or a combination of those things.  He looked at my bow and flicked the hairs, which revealed that I had an excess of rosin on the bow hair.  This was probably also causing the sound I was hearing.  So he cleaned the bow hair and then re-rosined it with the Hill Dark rosin.  When I played my violin with the new rosin, the sound was gone.

He also adjusted my bridge, which was slightly positioned wrong, and then adjusted my sound post correctly to align with the bridge.  

My violin sounds so much better now..  I believe that the primary cause of the strange sound I was hearing was the type of rosin, as well as the amount that was applied to the bow hair.  

The rosin I was using was much lighter in color, and was not suited for the climate and temperature I am in. 

The overuse of rosin was probably because I was adding more rosin to correct the sound.

"Wrong rosin" may not be the correct way to describe it.  Rather, the rosin I used was just not working with the environment I was in.  Sorry about the confusion...

- Pete -

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