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Fiddlerman White Christmas Virtual Group Project
Fiddlerman White Christmas Virtual Group Project
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (23 votes) 
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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 22, 2021 - 2:36 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15673

This years 2021 Christmas Project is, "White Christmas".

This is the first rough draft of the score.

White-Christmas-Project-Rough-Draft-no.1.pdf

It will change before it's completed. Also, I will supply all parts. You need not transpose any parts on your own. I do this in seconds from Finale.

The sole purpose of this draft is to get suggestions. Is this the best key signature for most of you? Is it long enough? Should we modulate?

I welcome suggestions at this stage but not so much after I'm done. 😁

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mouse
September 22, 2021 - 3:03 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
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In looking at it, it looks doable to me. 

@Fiddlerman Kind of  a dumb question, most likely, but what do you mean, "modulate"?

Time signature is good for me. I can actually count it out.

The Bumblebee Flies!

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rabn
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September 22, 2021 - 5:38 pm
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Foolish question warning:  What tempo do you anticipate?

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ELCBK
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September 22, 2021 - 8:04 pm
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YES!  MODULATE!  YES! 

 

...modulate means change keys. 

...tempo maybe 80 BPM?

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Mouse
September 22, 2021 - 9:48 pm
Member Since: December 26, 2018
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Modulating depends on what keys and how often and how difficult. 😁

The Bumblebee Flies!

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
September 23, 2021 - 12:54 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 3639
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:) modulate away, and why not - we've already got a handful of accidentals in the arrangement.  If the players can do that (managing accidentals within a specific key), modulating to a different key shouldn't be too much of an issue.....

Just my 2c worth LOL !

P.S. Nice start on the arrangement boss ( @fiddlerman ) - looking forward to the finished article.

No particular suggestions from me as regards tempo (other than personally, I just feel the 80 suggested by - was it @ELCBK - let me check - yes it was - I just feel that's overly slow and some folks may run-out-of-bow on the tied whole notes facepalm LOL j/k, but then again, that's just me and my wicked sense of humour bunny-headbang

I entered the entire draft version into MuseScore and at around 110 to 120 it's reasonable (to my ear...)

Just to give others a sense of what it "feels like" at 80 and 120 - here's an exported MuseScore mp3 sample at 80 and 120 of the first few bars... but at the end of the day, it's a collective decision by everyone who cares to voice an opinion !!!

Good to be back for a while, btw - hi everyone !

**EDIT** - I forgot @fiddlerman - you requested other feedback -

"The sole purpose of this draft is to get suggestions. Is this the best key signature for most of you? Is it long enough? Should we modulate?"

Key sig - I have no preference.

Is it long enough  - hmmm - well I guess you normally "pin each submission together twice" and then a 3rd time with a fade-out while the credits scroll - a quick calculation suggests - for a single play-through at both 80 and 120 bpm it lasts as follows - 

80bpm, 35 bars = approx 1 min 45 seconds
120bpm, 35 bars = approx 1 min 9 seconds

Sure down at 80, stitched twice we have a good 3 mins+, at 120 it's down to 2 min 18s secs which - hmm - perhaps does feel on the short side..... hmm, but only "perhaps"

If you feel it is not long enough (at the tempo we all finally decide on) - well - I LIKE the 4-bar outro - it's "punchy" (making a point and a flourish at the end) and it's cool as it stands already - but possibly that could be "extended" with a few bars run-in to the outro by reusing another part of the melody.... hmmmm.... difficult to think about without trying it, certainly don't want to lose track of the flow of the original piece.   Maybe, going back to the modulate question, there's scope for a few bars "change-over" to the new key ?????

Dunno really man - dunno just thoughts - and you did ask LOL !

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ELCBK
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September 23, 2021 - 9:32 am
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@BillyG -

You're right, 80 BPM is too slow - I had listened to a score that was like 123 or 125 BPM and thought too fast - sorry, I should have checked, first! 

So, I wouldn't go slower than 96 BPM. 

I'm not great with timing, but these reference what I grew up with: 

Bing Crosby - White Christmas (1942) Original Version

Liking this - about 103 BPM here: 

WHITE CHRISTMAS | "White Christmas" Clip | Paramount Movies

...gotta love Bing!  🥰

- Emily

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
September 23, 2021 - 10:09 am
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@ELCBK - aye, I like both of these !

Sort of hidden in the final agreement on tempo is a reference to what Pierre asked about the length of the overall piece.....  I edited my post #6 above to include thoughts on that as well !!!

I've listened through the MS version at 100 - and I would go with you on that and suggest narrowing the choice to the values you mention - say somewhere between 96 and 104.   

Yeah - and it WILL sound different with all the other viola and cello voices in there as well - it will audibly "fill out" so to speak and have a richer quality than the 4 synthesised MuseScore instruments - it's easy to forget about that, especially with (hopefully) a large number of submissions !!!

Good to catch up with you there !

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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SharonC
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September 23, 2021 - 10:09 am
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Yes, please modulate--and make it a little longer. 

I'm thinking between 98-105 bpm on the speed.  I think 120bpm would be a little quick (probably since I have the Bing Crosby version in my head when I hear this tune).

Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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Unfretted
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September 23, 2021 - 12:10 pm
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I’ll happily go with the flow on Fiddlerman’s choice of key or modulation (or no modulation, whatever).

The piece feels a little short as is.  Whether it’s lengthened by production or by a longer score, I do feel it needs to be a little longer.

I realize that @Fiddlerman didn’t really ask about tempo, but since it came up:

  I’m more in line with @ELCBK and @SharonC on this.  96 to 100 bpm would be lovely and fitting for a reverie, “I’m dreaming of a White Christmas...”

  I just played it through, 96 bpm feels perfect to me, and recalls the various classic recordings I love! 100 bpm is ok, but personally I wouldn’t go any quicker than that; it begins to detract from the beauty of the melody.

@Fiddlerman, just a suggestion to make it easier for you this year... perhaps your tech folks could setup a dedicated temporary email address for you for this project, something like [email protected]  And then, specify a strict protocol for email subject lines such as:  Video Submission Xmas [participant’s forum name] and Missing Video [participant’s forum name].  Finally, allow this email address to be used ONLY for sending video submissions or notification of missing video submissions.  (Not to be used for questions about music or anything else)

Hope that’s helpful.  😊 So happy! I’m dreaming of playing White Christmas!

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
September 23, 2021 - 12:49 pm
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smile @Unfretted - cool, thanks for the thoughts.   Feels like we're homing in more and more on the tempo ! TY for the feedback ^5s! 

   Oh - and sure - although I "quite liked" somewhere close to 120, I truly appreciate that is NOT how it is normally heard (or played for that matter!)....  the audio post was primarily to differentiate between two worst-case extremes !

And I also suspect we're getting a combined sort of feeling (well, from 3 of us so far) that yes, it *would* benefit from being made somewhat longer...  by whatever means or fashion works best.

Yeah, let's get all the suggestions in asap folks, I know we're still ages away, but it takes the load off Pierre (and participants who should have plenty time to contribute, rather than having to end up with a rush come December when many folk tend to have other things taking over their time.....)

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Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 24, 2021 - 2:15 pm
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Mouse said
In looking at it, it looks doable to me. 

@Fiddlerman Kind of  a dumb question, most likely, but what do you mean, "modulate"?

Time signature is good for me. I can actually count it out.

I mean after the first run through, that we modulate to a new key. Can be a nice effect. :) Not sure if I want to go there though.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 24, 2021 - 2:16 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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rabn said
Foolish question warning:  What tempo do you anticipate?

100 to 120 BPM. What do you guys think? This can be determined later too.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 24, 2021 - 2:19 pm
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As far as the length of the piece is concerned, I prefer to put in a repeat than to have people with less experience have a very difficult time with the modulation. We can double the piece..... Perhaps we can go crazy and have everyone who is willing, submit a version of themselves singing as well. I could have fun with that. 😁

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mouse
September 24, 2021 - 4:21 pm
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Thank you, Fiddlerman.

The Bumblebee Flies!

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SharonC
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September 24, 2021 - 9:02 pm
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I'm sure whatever you do, @Fiddlerman , it'll be wonderful.  I'm gonna pass on the singing, though, for everyone's sake.

stop-loud.gifImage Enlarger

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Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 27, 2021 - 12:28 pm
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SharonC said
I'm sure whatever you do, @Fiddlerman , it'll be wonderful.  I'm gonna pass on the singing, though, for everyone's sake.

stop-loud.gifImage Enlarger

  

Darn, was hoping lot's of people would want to do that. LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ELCBK
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September 29, 2021 - 1:37 am
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🤔 If you don't want to modulate... what about an interesting break (or is it called a bridge?) before a repeat? 

@BillyG - 

Is that what you already proposed?

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
September 30, 2021 - 2:28 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
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ELCBK said
🤔 If you don't want to modulate... what about an interesting break (or is it called a bridge?) before a repeat? 

@BillyG - 

Is that what you already proposed?

  

LOL @ELCBK - effectively, yes.  I hesitated from using the term "bridge" as I always associate it with pop and rock, but not so much with "fiddle tunes", structured with their often A and B (and occasionally C) parts....    But, on reflection, in a lot of classical music I listen to you regularly hear such devices used, and lots of other techniquess - oh, call-and-answer type of things and so on.....  I just thought the bridge term may not have been obvious to beginners and newcomers to music in general, so I avoided it....

Ha!  That reminds me - terminology can be confusing at times - in my early days on the forum (and on the instrument), there was a post about "projection" from someone - I completely misunderstood what they meant - I thought it was related to the listener's perception of the sound / audio / volume of the instrument across its playable  frequency range..... Hahahaha, as it subsequently became clear, it was a luthier type question that had been asked, and the post was referring to string projection - something I had known nothing about until it was kindly explained to me, without making me appear stupid or foolish !!   So I came away with new knowledge, cool!

Which simply demonstrates what a Great Forum this is!

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 4, 2021 - 3:15 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 15673
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Getting very close to releasing this.

Ideas, Thoughts?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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