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I was going to wait to start this topic until after I made up my revised version of 'The Modal Circle of Fifths Chart' (Visualizing Music Structure Thread), but got too many pokers in the fire (again)!
Well, I've changed my mind about not liking Dmaj Fiddle Tunes, now! The reason was so close, it bit me!
...I can give'm just what they need - a little of the DARK SIDE!!!
AND, it's easy!
First, the story...
I was checking out some music played by 'Kilfenora Céilí Band' today, from their 'Both Sides Now' CD & this tune caught my attention! "Lilies of The Field" (link to The Session notation). I didn't think too much of it to start, but it CHANGED! Thought maybe there was another tune on the track they didn't list, but after listening again I realized they had changed to a different key (at 00:34 in the video)!
"Lillies in the Field", "The Stone of Destiny", and "McFadden's Handsome Daughter"
I decided to figure out what they did!
Luckily, I made a good guess to begin with - notated the 1st four bars to check (the A Part is only 4 bars with repeat). All the settings at 'The Session' are in Dmaj (except one in Amaj), so the easiest modulation for giving a little darker feel (without changing the tonal center) is change Dmaj to D dorian - just remove the accidentals! So, it flattens the F#'s and C#'s.
THAT WAS ALL! So, Kilfenora play twice thru in Dmaj, then twice thru in Ddor!
This definitely opens the door of possibilities for existing Dmaj tunes! ...and other Major tunes could be 'darkened', but Minor tunes could take a turn on the bright side, too! ...changing to a 'parallel' key is just a matter of finding the right accidentals (the Modal Circle of Fifths Chart) - no moving the tune!
I don't think it's easy to begin playing modulations like this on the fly - so writing them down, using a notation app or software with playback, is perfect for learning tunes this way.
...I was going to share what I have on my Notion Mobile app, but I don't think it makes much sense unless I have some side-by-side comparison (too late tonight!).
Btw, the 'Kilfenora Céilí Band' is one of the oldest céilí bands in Ireland!
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i posted but the op changed so what i posted sounded like i was repeating what you said so i deleted.
i think youve found something you can work on! sounds interesting!
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Sorry, yeah editing... typing words vs my thoughts racing around, idk if I'll ever get co-ordinated. 🥴
I'm pretty excited about all this, though.
I composed my first tune last week - been waiting a bit to make 'sure' I still love it. 🤭 I started out intentionally in Am, knowing I wanted to change to 'something', which ended up being Cm. BUT, I've been puzzled - it's NOT really as minor sounding as I'd expect for that combination, which fits me perfectly!
Just realized today... looks like I might've also modulated between 'relative' keys - Am/Cmaj and Cm/Eb maj!!!
Thought about chords, their inversions & extensions to come up with my riff in the beginning, but I haven't actually added any chords to my melody, yet. I'm sure ALL will come to light when I do.
...abracadabra.
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Here's a comparison for the OP - "Lilies of The Field".
The video played twice thru in Dmaj, then twice thru Ddor.
This example I did (in Notion Mobile) is only once thru the tune in Dmaj, then once in Ddor. It's slower, but you can follow along with the pdf... maybe learn it!
...used the VIOLA app sound for this fiddle tune!
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@elcbk
I really like that! very cool!
BUT...
I wonder if you should now use a flute voice and add some swing to it?
edit...
one other thing you can do in notion mobile to make it easier to read is when you change modes... instead of putting the ac identals in.. just change the key signature. itll be easier to read.. in my opinion.
also.. you can "start a new system" so that new mode starts on its on line.. and really ..only use 4 measures per line. thats easier to read.
it would also be nice to remove the VLN symbol from each measure
all just cleanup things that to me make it look better and easier to read.
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@ABitRusty -
I switched out my pdf for the best I can do right now.
Had tried what you suggested, but can't seem to get the app to co-operate with me! ...I've obviously forgotten things (couldn't even get my measures to line up how I wanted) & I think there's a newer version of the app, too - so I'll start there.
Anyway - all I did was use the 1st setting for "The Lilies of The Field" found at The Session, then changed the accidentals for the corresponding parallel key change, which btw, does NOT HAVE TO BE DORIAN - every major key has a mode that starts with the original tonic (this case 'D'), and they'll ALL feel different! I just (now) tried Dm (flattened the B's), but it didn't sound as good, or as 'minor' as Ddor! I really like the contrast of Major vs Dorian.
About 'my' composition (that I haven't shared yet)... I've been thinking more about the way different keys/modes feel.
BUT, I've been puzzled - it's NOT really as minor sounding as I'd expect for that combination, which fits me perfectly!
I've ended up with a melody that doesn't feel depressing, but it also doesn't feel 'major happy' (which is great). I got interesting qualities I was hoping for, but I'm looking forward to exploring how to support/enhance it with chords.
...need to learn more about my app, first. 😒
I ran across this recent video by David Bennett - some interesting points about Major & Minor, not so 'cut & dry'!
Major Isn't Happy, Minor isn't Sad
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ELCBK said
@ABitRusty -I switched out my pdf for the best I can do right now.
Had tried what you suggested, but can't seem to get the app to co-operate with me! ...I've obviously forgotten things (couldn't even get my measures to line up) & I think there's a newer version of the app, too - so I'll start there.
Anyway - all I did was use the 1st setting for "The Lilies of The Field" found at The Session, then changed the accidentals for the corresponding parallel key change, which btw, does NOT HAVE TO BE DORIAN - every major key has a mode that starts with the original tonic (this case 'D'), and they'll ALL feel different! I just (now) tried Dm (flattened the B's), but it didn't sound as good, or as 'minor' as Ddor! I really like the contrast of Major vs Dorian.
About 'my' composition (that I haven't shared yet)... I've been thinking more about the way different keys/modes feel.
BUT, I've been puzzled - it's NOT really as minor sounding as I'd expect for that combination, which fits me perfectly!
I've ended up with a melody that doesn't feel depressing, but it also doesn't feel 'major happy' (which is great). I got interesting qualities I was hoping for, but I'm looking forward to exploring how to support/enhance it with chords.
...need to learn more about my app, first. 😒
I ran across this recent video by David Bennett - some interesting points about Major & Minor, not so 'cut & dry'!
Major Isn't Happy, Minor isn't Sad
I was being nit pickey.. trying to be a bit comical..
whatever you come up with id like to hear and I think youre on an interesting trail there! cant wait to see what you do!
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@ABitRusty -
I knew you were kidding about the flute. 🤣
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ELCBK said
@ABitRusty -I knew you were kidding about the flute. 🤣
ummm.. that was the part i was most serious about.
i think the midi flute is more pleasing than the midi piano or violin.. for the most part in real terms as well when talking solo instruments..
🙂
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Oooh, Oooh, Oooh!!!
FLUTE does sound BEST for playback!
(VIOLA sounds better than violin on the app, violin = 🤢🤮)
UPDATED THE MP3 & PDF (in post#4)!
Can't remember how to add any swing, yet. I'm SO STUPID, I installed 'strings pk' (which I don't need), but never installed the WELCOME pk (solo instruments) on my app! 🥴
Finally remembered how to get rid of the 'part' names, too!
WOO HOO! 🤗
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not stupid.. just takes playing with the menus to figure out. whatever YOU like for the sound is best. its your transcription. 😉🙂
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I do run across some treasures over on The Session.
Bob Green shared a GREAT version of Drowsy Maggie!
First time thru is in Edor, then the second is in Ador! ...there's also some really nice variation in the Ador 'B' part!
So, NOT 'parallel' keys, and NOT 'relative' keys! They are neighboring keys!
It's the 9th setting of Drowsy Maggie, if you want to listen & check it out!
I did a quick screen shot.
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ELCBK said
Sorry, yeah editing... typing words vs my thoughts racing around, idk if I'll ever get co-ordinated. 🥴I'm pretty excited about all this, though.
I composed my first tune last week - been waiting a bit to make 'sure' I still love it. 🤭 I started out intentionally in Am, knowing I wanted to change to 'something', which ended up being Cm. BUT, I've been puzzled - it's NOT really as minor sounding as I'd expect for that combination, which fits me perfectly!
Just realized today... looks like I might've also modulated between 'relative' keys - Am/Cmaj and Cm/Eb maj!!!
Thought about chords, their inversions & extensions to come up with my riff in the beginning, but I haven't actually added any chords to my melody, yet. I'm sure ALL will come to light when I do.
...abracadabra.
Found the reason WHY I was puzzle about my composition! It became clearer when I moved the notation, to start on a pickup note. It actually starts in Cmaj, moves back & forth between Cmaj & Cm in the 'A' Part, then Am in the 'B' Part!
So, 'parallel' key changes, then a 'relative' key change! 🤗
...shared in Post #263 (Emily's Journey Down The E/V Road! Blog).
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Ran across a tune (jig) yesterday that caught my interested.
It has a catchy/familiar feeling 'A' Part, but the 'B' Part... was pretty much dead (nobody has to agree with me). I was just going to disregard the whole tune, but kinda hated to 'waste' it. Irish, but not attributed to anyone, doesn't appear to be that popular - figured, why not play at being Dr. Frankenstein!
"The Eastern Harper" (link to Session notation) 'B' Part needed some life put into it... think I might've put something dark into it, instead - maybe too dark (?)
The tune says originally in Ador, not touching the 'A' Part, but not sure if I'm feeling some B Phrygian in it (?) Have not tried any chords with it, just can't see anything other than an Amin chord to start the 'A' Part, but looks like a Bmin chord might end the phrasing (why my thoughts of B Phrygian).
I planned to have the 'B' Part modulate to Amin - so started by removing the accidental. Felt it still needed more help, changed notes in the 12th, 14th, 15th & 16th measures. ...probably changed enough to warrant a name change, but I'm not sure I'm done with it, yet.
Not sure if I'm happy just returning to the 'A' Part again, or if it needs something maybe in between the 2 parts, something that feels a little lighter & transitions into the 'B' Part better. ...will have to think on it. Also have some mixed feelings about the tonal center for the 'B' Part (Amin, or E Phrygian?).
Tempo is a little too slow - left it, for now.
PDF (of my notation) & Mp-3 attached.
WELCOME ANY SUGGESTIONS/THOUGHTS ON THIS!
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Wow, also just saw I got a surprise!
Had asked for the name of this tune that modulates, 3 YEARS AGO - this is like the third tune I asked questions about 3 yrs ago & just recently got a response!
The Murray River Jig - GREAT tune, goes from Amaj (A Part) to Ador (B Part)!
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Busy getting Birthday stuff ready for several Grandkids, but finally got a chance to play my version of "The Eastern Harper".
I don't think I'll change anything (right now), I like playing it - falls naturally on the fingers, even the little shift near the end (in measure 15)! MUCH easier to pick this tune up quickly than my 'Wistful Thinking' (that took me a couple days to feel good).
🤔...maybe I'm just tired, but think 'The Lilies of The Field' (post#4) sounds pretty good with this!
Will think about modifying the name for my version, just a little.
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Don't know why I looked at the B Part of 'The Eastern Harper', again - but it just wasn't feeling like A 'minor'!
So, I changed 3 more notes & swear that makes it feel a solid Gmix! Split the 1st note into C & D as sixteenths & changed the last note of each phrase so they are double G's.
I'm still not quite sure about the 'A' Part being Ador (strong Bm feel at the end of the phrases), but one common chord progression listed at the Hook Theory site (for Ador) is: am(i), bm(ii), C(III), bm(ii). So, at least I see an Ador chord progression 'can' potentially end in Bm, but what's in the middle is not right, and THAT chord progression is terribly meh. 🤔... just because the end of the 'A' Part phrases strongly suggest a B chord, idk.
...don't think we're in Ireland anymore, Dorothy!
Need to get to sleep, so I'll play it & work on it more before posting changes.
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@elcbk said ..."...WELCOME ANY SUGGESTIONS/THOUGHTS ON THIS! "
AND
"..just because the end of the 'A' Part phrases strongly suggest a B chord, idk."
Looking at your original pdf of this and that ypu asked... im thinking this is leaning toward a G or Em.. Probably an Em would work
But i havent played it and/or put chords to it. i really dont think a B chord based on the music.. maybe a Bm
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@ABitRusty -
Thanks!
Sorry, mentioned Bm for it everywhere except that one sentence - meant as general, the chord has to have a B in it, but maybe doesn't have to be any 'B' chord, e.g., maybe could be a G chord (B in it).
Glad you are feeling the Bm, too.
Either way, don't see how the A Part can be in Ador - that's settled.
I think the A Part either has to be B Phrygian to end on that Bm tonic chord, or Gmaj for the Gmaj chord to be the tonic used at the end. No other scale/mode with 1 accidental (F#) will possibly work.
Even though I feel the strong B presence in the last A Part measure, if the key is Gmaj - the 1st chord could be Am (ii) for the 2-5-1 chord progression, which seems to work pretty good... more like ii, V, ii, I, ii, V, I though.
idk, I still think if this part resolves on B, that makes this A Part in B Phrygian... but borrowing a relative Gmaj chord progression? 😳😬😪
😵 Rats, not getting any sleep again, I need to learn more about chord progressions that don't start or end on the tonic... David Bennett has a couple videos I'll start with tomorrow.
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l
idk, I still think if this part resolves on B, that makes this A Part in B Phrygian... but borrowing the relative Gmaj Minor chord progression?
wonder how a Bb will sound against all the B's in the melody. ncr know till you try. onw of thosw things you hqve to do and decide for youraelf i think.
EDIT
nvr mind.. thought you were suggesting a Gmin thing.
EDIT...
took time to look over A part... im seeing Am and Gmaj chords. you could do anything but just looking at the notes thats what i see. With that an Em for a Gmaj or a C for a Am works sometimes. thats what i see just looking at it.
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