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Traditional Fiddle Intonation vs. Classical Violinist Intonation
Different Venues, Different Intonation?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (27 votes) 

April 16, 2022 - 12:49 am
Member Since: February 9, 2019
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@ELCBK said


I watched too much Star Trek while growing up... the wrath of khan

yeah those are painful

viewer descretion is advised..lol



now back to the previous program..

ELCBK said
@ABitRusty -

You'd think, right? 

I was never in Band - my Daughter played flute, but that's already a Concert pitch instrument.

There's a cheat sheet for the instruments that aren't Concert Pitch C, but this is wild. 

...and there's more than Bb instruments mentioned at Bandnotes.com (my linked source).  Here's an excerpt: 

Clarinets, bass clarinets, trumpets, tenor saxes and baritones playing treble clef are Bb instruments: when they play a C it sounds like a Bb on the piano. So, if they want to play a concert Bb scale, they start on a C (they have to think up a whole step). Concert C is their D, Concert Ab is their Bb. 

By the time you are an eighth grader, you should know your scales (right off, no hesitation and without looking up key signatures or asking what note you start on or anything!) for the following concert pitches :

    • Concert C
    • Concert F
    • Concert Bb
    • Concert Eb
    • Concert Ab
    • Concert G 

And... you should be able to find your scale for any other concert pitch that a conductor may request.


I don't know how they learn the notes others are playing, but hear a different pitch, other than my examples of Baroque tuning or down-tuned/alternative tunings for the fiddle.

...idk, my brain is fried.  I'm going to hear a pitch, maybe even a micro-tone, somewhere within an octave - as it relates to piano... might not even be the right octave, because I only care about what I can comfortably play. 🙄 

BUT, it appears I'll just have to do a little 'transposition' on the fly if I want to learn this particular piece of music I like. 

What's really bad, I bought a trumpet to give to one of the Grandkids, later this year - now I have absolutely NO idea how to teach anything about pitch with it!



May 6, 2022 - 4:28 am
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Earlier in this thread, I posted this link to "Traditional Intonation On The Fiddle" - at Chris Haigh's, "Fiddling Around the World" site. 

A favorite excerpt:  

The whole approach to intonation [Scandinavian] is more deliberate and precise than in Irish or Old time fiddling, and there is more of a sense of using a completely different scale, rather than just modifying occasional notes in a standard scale. In conclusion, it is clear that there is far more to traditional intonation than just uneducated, sloppy playing.  Francis Roche, in 1927, summed it up beautifully in the introduction to the third edition of his tune collection. 

“....Those notes between the tempered scale, those are like rare rough gems, beautiful, sensual, emotional….they draw you in…and sometimes the tempered scale just feels clumsy and ill defined. I love how the voice will find natural harmonies and avoid the tempered scale, unless forced to follow that straight jacket by a more dominant and tyrannical instrument like a piano or full bore accordion. Sometimes it makes sense, when faced by such behemoths of the musical world, to quietly slip out and distract oneself by other means rather than being swallowed up by the abuse of power such things and their button pushing owners can wield. The low notes are the sound of the sea wind, and the high notes are the cry of the Banshee that it carries. Wither one alone is just a sound. Both of them together is an Irish sound” (Fiddle On Magazine).


So, MUCH MORE can be played on the Fiddle - curious?  

I've only begun learning about trad intonation of Eastern Music & the Maqams of Middle Eastern music, & posted some info in a few other threads. 

Middle Eastern Fiddle - Maqams & Microtones Thread


August 4, 2022 - 6:41 pm
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Throughout this thread, microtones have been discussed - recently talked about notating microtones (in another thread), so sharing some symbols used. 

https://fiddlerman.com/wp-content/forum-image-uploads/elcb/2021/11/QT-Notation.pngImage Enlarger

Sacramento, California

August 4, 2022 - 6:49 pm
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I've played some pieces in orchestras that involve quarter-tones. I think I've only ever seen the Skinner notation in music I've played. 

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