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I actually talked to pierre about a year ago, about something like this. maybe a year and a half.
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Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.
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Oh, for as long as it is active, i can mention this in the welcome email with a link, if you want.
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Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.
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I think I'll add the first half of the B strain.
@ELCBK - I'd also like to suggest a small change: move the last D in measure 4 up an octave, in order to make it playable in first position without jumping over a string to the F#. The image I'm posting here shows that change, but I'll leave it up to you as to whether to accept it since it's in your segment.
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@AndrewH -
Thank you, for catching that I actually messed up 2 of Stringy's notes (he even tried to tell me). 🥴
LOVE your part!!!
May I suggest, since Stringy ends the A Part with such a long (dotted) D - would you consider starting your part on 'E'? I think it gives the B Part a refreshing start - it's only my preference, though.
Whoever completes the last half of the B Part can end on a D & it will work.
For MY part - I see your point... and I don't need my original strong ending. Tried a few different ways - changing my last 2 notes to continue up to E and F# would work, but think I like that E to 'G' might lead back into Stringy's part better & still sounds/feels good to play.
Appreciate thoughts on this.
@ABitRusty -
Know you are terribly busy right now, BUT... hint, hint. 😉
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Love your part Andrew and thanks for joining in, it follows on beautifully, and is a subtle change, lovely stuff. Leads on great as well and leaves it open for the next part
Emily I was thinking about that last d and wondered if it would be better as a quarter note with a cut, which neatly ends the first bit and let's Andrew's part come in better, though it wouldn't then be 6/8, does this matter?
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thinking if wanting people to write a part then maybe its better to let people just write part and not change it? thats part of it. seeing how people come up with different stuff.
@elcbk said... "Know you are terribly busy right now, BUT... hint, hint"
ill have to pass for now. but will be monitoring this because its a great idea!
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Harmonically, starting the B section on E doesn't really work. Each section normally starts on a I chord. The reason it sounds odd in this jig is that dotted quarter note ending to the A section, which would not typically be seen until the end of the entire jig, if at all. The end of the A or B section in an AABBCC jig is typically a quarter note on the tonic followed by an up beat on a V chord, and most jigs also start with an eighth note anacrusis so would not need a dotted quarter note at the end.
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Anyway, my suggestion for the end of the A section would be a quarter note on the D, then an eighth note on the open A, which flows into both the beginning of the A section on the repeat and my start to the B section when continuing on.
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ABitRusty said
thinking if wanting people to write a part then maybe its better to let people just write part and not change it? thats part of it. seeing how people come up with different stuff.
Ideally that's the case, but I think of these as suggesting minimal adjustments -- one note at the end to make it flow into the next part. I would not be in favor of making changes to people's parts anywhere else.
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Just played what you said Andrew , does sound better must admit,
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Mouse said
Oh, for as long as it is active, i can mention this in the welcome email with a link, if you want.🐭
Would appreciate it if you did that mouse, maybe a new player would join in.
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Will do.
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Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.
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@AndrewH -
PERFECT solution!
Makes SO much sense to lead into the B Part with the 2nd ending of the A Part!
@ABitRusty -
Awe rats, was looking forward to your part - maybe you'll be able to participate by the time we get around to a 5th Part!!!
Point taken... but isn't it GREAT that we can work together?
@stringy -
So glad you started this project!!! 🤗
...has helped me a lot.
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@AndrewH -
Can you change my phrase so the last 2 notes reflect from the D5 up to E5 then G5?
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@AndrewH -
Please excuse my questioning (I'm full of questions). You mentioned not being able to start the B Part on an E note - because it's not in the I Chord for a Dmaj Chord Progression (hope I got that right)?
I was wondering about chord substitutions. Can't a relative key chord, or relative chord progression be substituted?
...E dorian being a relative key - wouldn't the E dorian I chord work & the tune still be considered in the key of Dmaj if the progression transitions back to Dmaj, at some point & the 2nd half of B Part ends in D?
Or, can a I chord be an extended chord - a Dmaj9 chord?
If you can help me understand I'd appreciate it - was just trying to figure out why it sounded good to me, but I hadn't looked at any chords until this evening.
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ELCBK said
@AndrewH -Please excuse my questioning (I'm full of questions). You mentioned not being able to start the B Part on an E note - because it's not in the I Chord for a Dmaj Chord Progression (hope I got that right)?
I was wondering about chord substitutions. Can't a relative key chord, or relative chord progression be substituted?
...E dorian being a relative key - wouldn't the E dorian I chord work & the tune still be considered in the key of Dmaj if the progression transitions back to Dmaj, at some point & the 2nd half of B Part ends in D?
Or, can a I chord be an extended chord - a Dmaj9 chord?
If you can help me understand I'd appreciate it - was just trying to figure out why it sounded good to me, but I hadn't looked at any chords until this evening.
It could be that you're hearing the first three notes as implying a V7 chord, resolving to a I chord, which is a very common chord progression in itself. But to my ear it doesn't quite sound right for the genre because the first chord of each 8-measure strain typically establishes the key that the music will come back to at the end of the strain. I did a quick skim through O'Neill's when I posted that comment earlier, and I couldn't find any jig that uses chords other than the I chord (in whatever key the strain is in) for the beginning and end of a strain. Although there is a lot of harmonic freedom in Irish music, chord substitutions or extended chords are much more likely to be successful in the middle of an 8-measure strain than right at the beginning or end of one.
I suppose modulation is an option, but that would mean rewriting my entire four measures because as it's currently written it jumps straight back to D major. I did in fact consider modulating when I was writing it, but decided against it in order to keep the jig accessible to beginners. (Note that, at the time, I wasn't proposing any change to the end of the A section because it would still work as it was.)
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If I were to keep the D at the end of the first strain, and continue in E Dorian, this is what it might look like, using the same general melodic contour (but ending differently to make it easier to continue):
It works quite well, but we're definitely getting far out of "simple jig" territory here.
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@AndrewH -
Thank you for showing me!
THAT definitely changes direction - may open up more possibilities for a longer Jig (I was just looking at one with 6 Parts!).
I like your original version much more. I simply happened to try the E & liked how it played - thought since it's part of an extended I chord, there wouldn't be any harmony issues.
Still like Stringy's original ending of the dotted eighth. There's other Jigs that end the A Part with a dotted 8th, like "Rose In The Heather".
I'm perfectly happy with whatever you chose for your part, Andrew!
Almost everything I find on composing trad Irish (& it's structure) refers to Reels (with 32 bars) - might apply to basic double Jigs, too. I have seen a SIX Part Jig!!!
Poetic vs Linear Learning (Caoimhin Mac Aoidh) - "The paper reviews historical terminology and analytical frameworks in relation to structural studies in Irish Dance Tunes."
There are a lot of interesting discussions on 'composing' trad Irish tunes at The Session (I've only read a few so far)!
LOVE this comment - talking about how similar a newly composed tune might be to an existing tune somewhere:
One way I determine if they’re unique enough is to play them at a session and seeing if anyone tries to join in after the first few notes. I’ll fade out and listen to what they’re playing – and sometimes realize at that point that I’m only rewriting an existing tune. If no one tries to join in even in consecutive sessions -- then I know I might have a fresh idea. If someone says, “Nice tune, what’s it called?” or something like that -- then I know I might have a keeper.
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I had fun playing this some more tonight!
I'm not using an E string right now & certainly didn't hurt for me to get some shifting practiced.
I still prefer the version in Post #24 (but with my last 2 notes changed like in Post #38).
Anyone going to offer to finish the B part?
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AndrewH said
Anyway, my suggestion for the end of the A section would be a quarter note on the D, then an eighth note on the open A, which flows into both the beginning of the A section on the repeat and my start to the B section when continuing on.
Stringy agreed this sounded good.
I wasn't sure if you were talking about a different ending on the repeat of the A Part, or not, Andrew(?)
I support which ever way you go with the ending.
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