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Fiddlerman jig
A project for anyone who wants to join in
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (62 votes) 
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ABitRusty
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January 21, 2024 - 12:04 am
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Down Scotty Road has my vote.   sorry @stringy missed that post.

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ELCBK
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Unfretted said

Nobody notates jigs this way.  Please see the notation provided in Post 18 by @SharonC.  Sharon used the commonly accepted approach to presenting a jig.  Any further rhythmic emphasis is conveyed by the musician.  In the case of fiddlers, the attack of the bow stroke gives the jig its rhythmic feel.

  

 

I did say why I notated that way - to better reflect Jig rhythm.  I wanted the piano playback to 'sound' like a Jig - when I notate the 'common' way, it's terrible.

The 'common' way of notating a Jig does not help anyone, who doesn't know what Jig rhythm is, learn - especially folks who don't grow up around this music.  I wish I could share Kevin Burke's whole lesson on Irish Dance Rhythms - I merely showed what he describes. 

As far as Jig rhythm & the fiddle go - how does 'bow attack' make rhythm?  'Attack' is the start of a bow stroke, rhythm is a pattern of time duration. 

WE can disagree & have different views on things - I'm still looking forward to playing 4 measures you submit, and I certainly would welcome your voluntary notation service.  

 

@stringy -

Have you settled on a title? 

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January 21, 2024 - 5:27 pm
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ELCBK said

Unfretted said

Nobody notates jigs this way.  Please see the notation provided in Post 18 by @SharonC.  Sharon used the commonly accepted approach to presenting a jig.  Any further rhythmic emphasis is conveyed by the musician.  In the case of fiddlers, the attack of the bow stroke gives the jig its rhythmic feel.

  

 

I did say why I notated that way - to better reflect Jig rhythm.  I wanted the piano playback to 'sound' like a Jig - when I notate the 'common' way, it's terrible.

The 'common' way of notating a Jig does not help anyone, who doesn't know what Jig rhythm is, learn - especially folks who don't grow up around this music.  I wish I could share Kevin Burke's whole lesson on Irish Dance Rhythms - I merely showed what he describes. 

As far as Jig rhythm & the fiddle go - how does 'bow attack' make rhythm?  'Attack' is the start of a bow stroke, rhythm is a pattern of time duration. 

WE can disagree & have different views on things - I'm still looking forward to playing 4 measures you submit, and I certainly would welcome your voluntary notation service.  

@stringy -

Have you settled on a title? 

 

@ELCBK,  I’m not sure you’re discerning the difference between rhythm and EMPHASIS.  

Imagine setting your metronome to 6/8 time, with no audible mark of beat 1.  It would not sound like music, it would not inspire a tapping foot, and it would be as monotonous as the ticking of a clock.  Would that sound like a jig?

Now, I’ll set some basic parameters:  imagine a very basic jig in 6/8 time, with emphasis on the first and fourth beats.  That should have the feel of a jig. 

How is that emphasis conveyed?  It’s really not quite so much from the count, but rather from the bowing.  On the accented beats, the attack should be a bit more distinct, and then the bow stroke should accelerate as it follows through.  The bowing emphasis is creating the perceived rhythm.  Combine that bowing emphasis on the first and fourth beats with the 6/8 count, and you’ve got it, something that sounds like music and sounds like a very basic jig.  Listen carefully and I think you’ll find that the underlying beat is more steady than you realize.

 I don’t think it helps anyone to adulterate the notation in a manner that is inaccurate, especially since it doesn’t convey the necessary bowing techniques that would achieve the desired rhythmic feel.

As far as Kevin Burke is concerned (and I wouldn’t be expressing this if you hadn’t brought it up), I personally have never really cared for his playing or his teaching style.  😮! I know you favor him, as do many others, and he’s gained a following.  I saw him live several times when he was young and his playing just didn’t do it for me.  He’s much older now, and he still doesn’t reach me.  I think it’s because of the context.  I saw the late, incredibly great, Eugene O’Donnell many times in those days.  O’Donnell’s musical talents and expressive abilities on the violin were indescribable and unforgettable.  Likewise, I saw the young Aly Bain then.  He was, and still is, magical to me, mesmerizing.  I’ve simply found other fiddlers more inspiring to me, and I’ve been fortunate to have seen so many of the greats live:  Boys of the Lough, Eugene O’Donnell with Mick Moloney, The Battlefield Band (the originals!), De Dannan,  Capercaillie, Fiddler’s Bid, Eileen Ivers, Natalie MacMaster, the list goes on…

I won’t be participating in this group jig-writing effort.  No time, and this approach is not personally appealing to me.  As it diverged from @stringy’s original proposal, it’s become too controlled and constricted.  But some of you are having fun with it and that’s all good. Enjoy!

I did find @stringy’s original proposal appealing.  It was a great idea to let each person have two bars of secret, autonomous, creative input in a blind, group tune-writing process with the final product a surprise mystery tune.  Hopefully he’ll try that idea again someday.

@stringy said:

“My idea is to compose a simple jig, in d or g major, 6/8 time. It would be done by each person who wanted to join in composing two bars of music, not playing it but writing it on a simple stave.

The first two bars composed by say mouse, would be sent in a personal message by her to another member maybe Greg, he would then compose another two bars to follow the first two, then he would send his two bars, but not the original 2 to Emily who would then compose two bars to follow Greg's, then send her two but not Greg's to someone else, at the end we put them all together in the order they were sent and see what we have, maybe it would be a great jig or it may be garbage but would be good fun, we could call it the fiddlerman jig, you never know it may start getting played at sessions.

Perhaps if it's any good fiddlerman might even play it 

What does anyone think? And any input or ideas?“ (end of quote)

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stringy
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January 21, 2024 - 8:21 pm
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Thanks unfretted and a bit rusty, I didn't I tend to cause any arguments on here, but that's what musicians do, lol.

Unfretted glad you read about scotty road, it's Interesting, Liverpool itself, by the Irish is thought of as the second capital of Ireland, so its impossible to think of Irish music without including Liverpool in it, this sometimes isn't understood by our friends from other countries. 

Leaving of Liverpool, wrote about Irish emigrating to America. 

Dirty old town, Irish anthem written by Ewan Mac coll, as was travelling people as well.

Gaelic language in Liverpool, good book to read, as well as scouse dialects, which come from Norway and Ireland.

My own family come from Everton Vale, 13 there was living in one house till they were bombed out in the war, my grandad who was Irish was the finest banjo player in liverpool, and that's the truth, when I was 5 or 6 we used to visit from the town we were relocated to after our house was destroyed by a German mine parachute bomb, I remember it like, yesterday, they had all kinds of Instruments hanging on the walls from nails that had been hammered Into the brick work, they would take them down and John and James and others would play Irish rebel songs and sing..my grandma used to swear and curse the Orange Lodge parades.

I am a singer myself to be honest, fiddle, guitar, banjo, mandolin as well as most other string instruments are just a pastime to me, I have heard Kevin Burke who you mention, he's not a bad player to be honest, don't know where his accent comes from though lol.

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Unfretted
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January 21, 2024 - 9:16 pm
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@stringy, Thank you for sharing that very personal and touching story of your family, your life, and your musical heritage.

That’s the beauty of choosing a meaningful name like Down Scotty Road.  It led to all this. You chose well.  I think your story alone is going to motivate folks to want to learn and share this tune.

When I visited England, I was struck by just how many people calmly recounted being literally blown out of their homes and displaced during the War.  Mind boggling.

Thank you for initiating this project and seeing it through.

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ELCBK
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January 22, 2024 - 3:00 am
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@Unfretted -

The notation I offered up (post 98) is not 'inaccurate' - it's just an alternative I've seen used elsewhere.  The corresponding mp3 (made from it) is an accurate representation of jig rhythm. 

Your participation at the beginning of stringy's project would have changed things.  If you'd like to see change now, you can participate now and notate as you wish. 

Btw, everyone can disregard those last 4 measures I added, it was only an idea.  

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ELCBK
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January 26, 2024 - 1:52 am
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If anyone would like to join in on Stringy's Jig Project:

  • Any Fiddlerman Forum Member can submit 4 measures. 
  • It can be handwritten.
  • The notation will be updated and your name will be added. 

This is what we have so far - the next 4 measures could end the 'C' Part for us! 🤗

You can print out this current pdf and hear the notes in the mp3 playback. 

 

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stringy
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January 26, 2024 - 7:15 am
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Great Post Emily, just hope it galvanises someone into putting some bars together.

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ELCBK
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February 7, 2024 - 6:05 pm
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@stringy -

Thanks! 

Do you want to set a deadline for this project?

 

💖  Consider joining stringy's Forum Project before Spring Fever sets in!  💖

 

ELCBK said

If anyone would like to join in on Stringy's Jig Project:

    • Any Fiddlerman Forum Member can submit 4 measures.
    • It can be handwritten.
    • The notation will be updated and your name will be added. 

This is what we have so far - the next 4 measures could end the 'C' Part for us! 🤗

You can print out this current pdf and hear the notes in the mp3 playback. 

  

...standard notation here - so notation-generated audio here does not let you see/hear 'Jig' rhythm. 

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