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I cant twist my left wrist enough.
Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 (1 votes) 
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pypetey
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September 7, 2013 - 3:12 am
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Hi,

I am after my first month of learning on how to play a violin. One of my recent exercises I had to was pizzicato with 4th finger on all strings.

The problem I've got is that I can't twist my enough so it would be like almost in parallel to the neck. It's almost perpendicular so when I try to put my fingers on strings or pizzicato I am doing a "death grip" on the neck. When I help myself with right hand it feels all right but when I stop doing that my left hand goes back to its bad angle.

I can provide pictures, video or talk on skype if it's needed.

I am worried and my teacher did not know what to do with this issue.

Please provide me some feedback.

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Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
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September 7, 2013 - 4:11 am
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Hi

Pictures and / or a video would be very helpful.

Someone would be much more likely to be able to help if you can provide them. Especially a video.

 

I'm sure we will get it sorted thumbs-up

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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pypetey
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September 7, 2013 - 8:36 am
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Here's a youtube video - it's not the best quality but should be ok :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....NIjT1knrG0

 

Generally my wrist should be able to rotate a bit more to be let's say almost in parallel to the neck but my ability to rotate it is limited. If I would help myself with left hand then it's ok and and I don't feel such tension.

 

If this video is not enough I will provide a video recorded from my laptop where I also show the movement and rotation with help of my right hand.

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Fiddlestix
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September 7, 2013 - 9:05 am
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@ pypetey: Welcome to the forum.

To start with, a person's wrist doesn't twist, the twisting motion starts at the elbow. It's physically impossible to rotate your hand from the connecting bone's ( the radius and ulna ) in a twisting motion. The hand move's in two direction only, bending the hand back and forth and side to side, it doesn't rotate.

Try holding your arm and twist your hand, the whole forearm twist's back to the elbow, the hand / wrist doesn't rotate.

 

Ken.

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Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
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September 7, 2013 - 9:41 am
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I have a similar limitation that originates in my left shoulder. I wonder if you feel any pressure in your elbow or shoulder.?

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Fiddlerman
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September 7, 2013 - 10:26 am
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Ken is right. Get the elbow under as much as you can without hurting yourself but another thing you can try is having the violin at an angle that will allow you to get around more. Make a comparison of how it feels to point the violin in front of you vs pointing it to your left side. Let me know the result. Often it is easier to have it more to the left side. You can then compensate by turning your head slightly more to the left. Remember, it's all done carefully and not exaggerated.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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pypetey
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September 7, 2013 - 10:29 am
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Picklefish said
I have a similar limitation that originates in my left shoulder. I wonder if you feel any pressure in your elbow or shoulder.?

There is some sort of pain/pressure under my shoulder (back of the arm)

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pypetey
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September 7, 2013 - 1:15 pm
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Fiddlerman said
Ken is right. Get the elbow under as much as you can without hurting yourself but another thing you can try is having the violin at an angle that will allow you to get around more. Make a comparison of how it feels to point the violin in front of you vs pointing it to your left side. Let me know the result. Often it is easier to have it more to the left side. You can then compensate by turning your head slightly more to the left. Remember, it's all done carefully and not exaggerated.

 

I tried several angles and found the perfect point where I can get the elbow quite far in comparison to other angles - at the moment violin is pointed a bit more to the left side. I can reach all strings but I feel pain in my shoulder and the thumb does not have as much tension as it had earlier (but still does).

I suppose that I will need to do a lot of exercises to make it feel natural.
How should I train my shoulder and forearm so I don't feel the pain.

 

Would you like to see an another video or pictures with my elbow movement and position?

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Robyn.fnq
Queensland, Australia
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September 8, 2013 - 1:25 am
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From that video your wrist looks great, it's straight and well connected with the angle of your arm.  I'm thinking your thumb is a little too far around the neck, I have the same problem and end up doing the death grip on the violin neck.  But when I consciously move my thumb under the neck my fingers can stretch further.  When I'm not thinking about it the thumb moves back to the left.

Try some exercises with your thumb under, and moving the elbow forwards and backwards.  I'm thinking the pain/discomfort is caused by using muscles in an unfamiliar way.  If that's the case all will improve with practise.  Moving the pinky in this way is very unnatural for us until we start learning violin, and will cause discomfort with these stretches until we train it to stretch properly to reach notes.

Just my humble opinion, hope it helps.

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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RosinedUp
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September 8, 2013 - 4:49 am
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Yes, I expect this is mainly a problem of hold. Probably you need to get the scroll out in front more than what you show in the video.  And it could be that the tail is too far back and too high on the shoulder.  You don't mention or show your shoulder rest, I think. Are you using one?

Can you hold the violin with no hands without pain?  Not everyone does it that way, but it seems that most do nowadays.  Your solution to holding the violin ought to depend on your particular anatomy.  I think you should study some videos about how to hold and try some different shoulder rests and chinrests.   Here are a couple different approaches:

 

http://fiddlerman.com/tutorial.....-a-violin/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....HiWwEVEgWU

 

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pypetey
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September 8, 2013 - 10:40 am
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I've got another interesting and very helpful response:

 

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Picklefish
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September 8, 2013 - 12:17 pm
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I will try stretching every day.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Kevin M.
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September 8, 2013 - 12:59 pm
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pypety, that was a great video. I tried it and it already helps. I never thought my hand would go that far.

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screeeech
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September 8, 2013 - 6:16 pm
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In the mean time while you are stretching....

Try rotating the violin further more like a guitar, see if that helps. 

 

Also try allowing your thumb to sit if necessary on the back of the neck of the violin.

 

Another attempt at being comfortable try raising the scroll a little so the fingerboard has more incline.

Just some thoughts 

 

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TerryT
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September 8, 2013 - 6:26 pm
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Wow! Simple excercises and it works so well!!!

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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