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Tuning my bow
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argy1678
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May 16, 2012 - 2:19 pm
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Hey there, i watched a video of fiddlerman the other day and realized that he has the horse hairs really loose. Could someone please point out the +++ and - - - of playing with the bow's hairs loose and tight?

Thank you.

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Soguns Black Violin
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May 16, 2012 - 4:12 pm
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Hi.

 

The perfect for the bow is when the distance between hair of the bow and the stick is the same as the thick of the stick :D.

 

It also depend on the style of you, some people can't play lose, some people can't play tight. But just don't play it too tight or you must force to use power to make the sound + hair into the string ( and that's not good ). Just find the best for you, everybody have different style blink

 

Minh

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Oliver
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May 16, 2012 - 4:56 pm
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That is not quite the truth but I won't object having seen the large effort you have expended in your other interesting posts.  Impressive!

facepalm

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Soguns Black Violin
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May 16, 2012 - 5:06 pm
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Haha Oliver.... I've said that I love to see people are so in love with violin ( other instrument also ) ... so It's just abit to discuss :)))

 

Also abit outside... how can you change your avatar?..... I've upload my avatar but it keep using this stupid cant with gun facepalm ... any idea? facepalm

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Oliver
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May 16, 2012 - 5:09 pm
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I think the avatar is an option in the PROFILE set up or do you know that ?

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argy1678
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May 16, 2012 - 5:16 pm
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Oliver, please, if you object feel free to make corrections. After all, we are all here to learn :). Keep posting your oppinions on the subject please!fish

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Oliver
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May 16, 2012 - 5:28 pm
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I will have to take a picture ..... of a bow ........(not me)  but I need my evening practice first.  Auf Wiedersehen.

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Kevin M.
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May 16, 2012 - 5:41 pm
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When you are told the distance from the bow to the hair should be the thickness of a pencil or the thickness of the bow that is all relevent to where the hairs start out when loose.  As bows get old they new to be rearched or cheap bows may be either too tight to begin with or too loose.  The measurement are for the most part correct if the bow supplies the correct tension at that point and when not tensioned the hairs just touch the bow.

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Soguns Black Violin
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May 16, 2012 - 5:53 pm
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@Oliver I did that... not working facepalm

 

Also back about the bow. That perfect is actually come from a book I don't remember where I've read it :-?.... but as I say I think this is a difficult topic since everybody have their own feeling about the bow lose or tight, and everybow is different. 

 

So in my opinion I will say just experience and find the most comfortable way to play violin..... lose or tight is just an option tongue

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DanielB
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May 16, 2012 - 6:28 pm
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This sort of topic is always fun.  As a beginner I see a lot of "the correct amount of tension", which of course is exactly what anyone who is trying to figure it out does not know. LOL  It is like with rosin.  "Use enough, but not too much".  A clear sign of the experienced player talking, but not usually much help.

My rule of thumb has been to tighten the bow until the bow hairs won't touch the stick with the pressure I play at.  That comes out to a millimeter or two less than the thickness of a number 2 pencil (which is also often given as an indicator of how tight to have the bow).  I figure that way if it is not right, it at least isn't risking over-tightening the bow and damaging things.  I've tried a little more and a little less, but it feels comfortable about that way, since I don't use a lot of bow pressure at this point.  Just enough to get the note and keep it reasonably steady.

I thought I would comment anyway, though, since as a beginner this is a topic where I definitely have an interest.  Great topic.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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NoirVelours
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May 16, 2012 - 6:33 pm
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Argy, for a pro like FM, no idea. But for a beginner like me, too tight or too losse = bouncing bow at 100% anyway it's the problem I encounter.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Soguns Black Violin
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May 16, 2012 - 6:37 pm
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Haha you got a point there .... and so sorry if my post is too troll facepalm.. I didn't mean that .....

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Oliver
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May 16, 2012 - 7:11 pm
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SBV

(You heard it first on FiddlerMan)

There should be two pictures attached.  One is some of my bows.  They are mostly different in materials, diameters and contours.  The best is $200 + and then it drops to about $80.  There is CF, prenambuco, brazil and at least one unknown.

Proposition.....the pencil spacing criteria will adjust all these bows to the same characteristics.  Those bows with the greater bend will require more tension to pass a pencil diameter.  On the other hand, one of the bows is almost straight and will easily pass a pencil at very low tension.   But the pencil test is probably reasonable for most student bows.

I like to know about each bow's characteristic so I do a test weighing.....NOT NOT the weight of the bow but how much force I need to close the space at my normal settings.  The second picture shows the operation using a diet scale.  My preferred force is about 18 to 20 oz. for all bows.  I try to recall the force at the screw to achieve my target values which saves me from carrying a scale in my case smile

In the end, everybody has different taste and style and bows and bow hair and strings and rosin and violins and even climates and musical tastes are different but I just happen to like being able to quantify what I'm doing.

There are probably many teachers and videos with different schools of thought.

And just web sites too.

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TerryT
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May 16, 2012 - 7:23 pm
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"Like"

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and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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dionysia
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May 16, 2012 - 7:34 pm
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Holy cow Oliver! that is a lot of bows!!

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Oliver
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May 16, 2012 - 7:50 pm
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My collection of bows is only in defense of the fickleness of my violin(s).

I can hardly play two days in a row before I need to choose a different bow.

violin-student

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cdennyb
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hmmm, "weight watchers" scale huh O?

 

Nice collection of hairy things. LOL

 

I tighten just enough for the hair to clear the strings when I play it. I guess the 1/4" gap is in order. I find it very interesting about your scale measurement to get the tension right regardless of the bow constuction. Nice work... now I have to think about that too.

 

I have mentioned to others on the forum that have experienced the "bouncing bow" perdicament and sometimes a bow that's too tight will aggravate that condition.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Mad_Wed
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I agree with DanielB.

I use only one rule to tighten my bow - the stick shouldn't touch the strings when i play. I don't look at the width of the gasp or other things.. Usually it all happends in first minute, when i check the tuning of my violin - same time i check the bow.

banana

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NoirVelours
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May 17, 2012 - 7:51 am
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I think Oliver simply has a bow fetish lol, like others are addicted to shoes.roflol

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Fiddlestix
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Well I wasn't going to post on this subject, but temptation got the best of me. I think it's just another matter of personal preference. Is there really a proper tension for bow hair tightness ?

I tighten my bow to sound, if it's too tight I get one particular sound, if too loose I get another sound. Also, if it's too tight I notice the bow tend's to drift on the string's, regardless of the amount of rosin applied. If too loose, I tend to get unwanted double stops.

Watching the D.S.O ( Detroit Symphony Orchestra ) this past Saturday on webcast, I payed particular attention as to how tight the violinist's had their bow's. I noticed that one section had their bow's really tight when other section's were like the thickness of the bow stick. It looked to me as if the really tight bow's belonged to the players who were very aggressive in their playing, maybe the first violin section, I dunno dunno. I did notice that it was the section to the left of the Conductor which included the Concert Master. First violin section ?dunno The TV camera's are positioned around the orchestra and they do show close-up's of the mucisian's, so you can see each player in detail.

Is there an "exact" tension, is kinda like saying "does anybody "really" know what time it is"?

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