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Yeah, sounds like sex, but I was following a discussion at the Session, yesterday (“Drive” in melody playing, what is it and how do I practice it?) & after thinking about it I came to the conclusion that, for a melody player, 'TENSION... and release' is what it's all about!
🤔... come to think about it, Alasdair Frazer talks about it in his workshops (check out Fiddle Hell).
Anyway, I mentioned:
The 1st beat in a measure is usually my main target, so I want to build up some tension to get to it. Music Theory can help push me toward that target - like I can substitute different subdivisions for the last beat (usually a weak beat) in a measure (more, smaller notes give the illusion of speed & visa versa) & I can try out different types of accents (metrical, dynamic, duration or pitch change [I should've said even more than one at a time]) where there wasn’t any. I feel a little variety is important (I’m still learning just where & when to apply this), because having every measure equally driving feels (to me) just as boring as having no drive.
I admire many fiddlers for their 'driving rhythm' & groove - and some are really great teachers! Many wonderful fiddlers (I like) don't always talk about what they do it, so I just study their playing.
It does help to know what to look for - techniques you might find your favorite fiddler using!
I've run across several BOWING techniques that cause
TENSION... and release!
There's the 'updriven bow' (I've heard & seen it used, like it's a rare creature 🤣, in a few lessons & workshops) - btw, good idea to practice upbows & downbows equally!
Niel Gow (1727-1807); this Perthshire fiddler is credited with creating the “up-driven bow” technique, ideal for playing certain phrases in the Strathspey. (Fiddling Around The World)
About the Arrow Stroke or Driven Bow Technique:
Arlene Patterson describes this technique in brief: “In the arrow stroke, or driven-bow technique, the first stroke is taken smartly down, leaving the up-bow to take the remaining three notes. Thus the complete movement consists of 1 down-bow followed by 3 up-bow pulses. Extra bow pressure is put on the third note of the phrase to re-emphasize the rhythm, hence the “driven” nature of the stroke. The last note, the 16th note is played staccato. So, one fast down bow, then take the next 3 beats or notes on the up-bow. It feels as if the up bow notes float or rebound from the strong “driven” down bow.” (Scotsfiddle.org PDF) - Scottish Fiddle Club of Colorado
There's tension in the beginning of the Scottish 'scrunch' and, kinda opposite with the Klezmer 'krekhts' - which abruptly stops a sped-up bow.
So, MELODIC DISSONANCE is also a driving factor, causing tension! You can choose dissonant combinations of notes that just feel like they HAVE TO MOVE ('resolve')! Everyone always wants to quickly get away from dissonance & go to → harmony... now, we're also getting into cadence territory!
There's dissonance other than 'melodic', or harmonic - dissonance from uneven rhythm, or layers of different rhythm. Rhythmic Dissonance: Introduction - syncopation, as polyrhythm & polymeter, hemiola.
There's MORE... step back in history!
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Sorry, realize every thread I start ends up a blog, but I haven't wanted to let go of the 'Rhythmic Dissonance' thing - thinking it really is important for great music.
🤔... on some level it might be a feature of good phrasing, great grooves & why I like syncopation. It's dynamic in nature - and can work like a chord progression (feel wanting to move/resolve).
I've also been thinking more about the relationship of 'rhythmic dissonance' to 'melodic contour' (talked about in Identifying Patterns in Similar Tunes Thread). Think I was eluding to this in the OP - feels like a ghost staring at me, right in my face. 😳 Don't we naturally feel like we lose momentum as we climb stairs upward? ...and gain momentum running down stairs? Can't rising & falling melodic contours be felt this way, too?
After reading the intro to Bill Plake's book on Rhythmic Dissonance, and some of the Evan Adams paper on What Is Rhythmic Dissonance, I'm convinced I want to do more than just get my feet wet... but jeez, I just keep piling on more than I can handle at the moment! Like everything else, if I can start keeping an eye out/identify where I see/hear it - that might help... don't think I have the wherewithal to make it thru a workbook (front-to-back) at the moment, but the more I can keep the subject up front - the better.
Most info I've seen on this subject pertains to improvisation & jazz... but don't we make some of this happen EACH TIME WE CHOOSE HOW TO PHRASE ANY MUSIC WE PLAY?
I've seen where Rhythmic Dissonance is called "Metrical Dissonance" (undergraduate primary text & workbook). 🤨 FOR NOW, I have to accept 'Rhythmic' & 'Metrical' Dissonance as THE SAME.
The 2 types are:
- Grouping Dissonance
- Displacement Dissonance
Ah HA! JUST FOUND an article I can relate to!
"Formal Functions of Metric Dissonance in Rock Music"
ABSTRACT: This article explores the interactions of metric dissonance with phrase structure and form in rock music, offers categorization schemes for common formal functions of metric dissonance, and presents several corpus studies of metric dissonance in the works of single artists and bands as well as in a cross-section of rock songs. These data allow for comparative analyses of the metric profile of a given artist or band, suggest genre correlations with particular metric patterns, and demonstrate a trend of increasing metric dissonance throughout the history of rock.
🤔... when we immerse ouselves in different genres of music, we become accustomed to the particular phrasing, maybe rhythmical/metrical dissonances (?) that are common features to one genre, but not another - so what originally may seem as different (or disturbance), becomes 'natural' feeling.
Maybe some 'rhythmical/metrical dissonance' may easily be overlooked in folk music, because we get so used to them?
...getting late, there's some videos that help, I'll share - but love to hear any thoughts on this.
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@elcbk said..."..I've also been thinking more about the relationship of 'rhythmic dissonance' to 'melodic contour' (talked about in Identifying Patterns in Similar Tunes Thread). Think I was eluding to this in the OP - feels like a ghost staring at me, right in my face. 😳 Don't we naturally feel like we lose momentum as we climb stairs upward? ...and gain momentum running down stairs? Can't rising & falling melodic contours be felt this way, too? "
I have experienxed that as I go higher with notes .. or climb up a scale... theres more energy. Ive learned that I have to pull back some or lighten up on my bow or the volume will be out of balance on the top end. In some cases thats what I want or it makes sense. So i think in music the natural tendency is to be reverse of the stairs analogy.. but i stick to one genre so not as versed overall.. but its what i feel in what I do play.
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How we choose to control volume is an very interesting topic in itself, especially since we can create a greater amount - simply by increasing bow speed.
🤔... I think a lot depends on whether (or not) I plan on stopping at the top of the stairs, or is there a landing? Do I turn & go up more stairs to the attic (where my dead sister's ghost is hiding)... or will I tippy-toe along the hallway once I get there - sneak into my sister's room & take refuge unnoticed? 😳
Fun thinking of musical movement as someone in a storyline (just getting into 'Halloween mode' - no sisters 🎃) ... almost as much fun as discovering crazy old lyrics put to dance tunes (how the words relate to the phrasing)!
THREE Types of Rhythmical/Metrical Dissonance?
1.) Grouping Dissonance: when 2 (or more) different note grouping layers/voices play against each other, e.g., 4:3 or 3:2 (Hemiola)!
Info & examples from Girl In Blue Music.
2.) Displacement Dissonance: when a layer/voice is out of sync with the others - SYNCOPATION! Video from Girl In Blue Music.
Info & examples from Girl in Blue Music.
3.) Pulse Dissonance: I just discovered this 3rd type - presented here by Lina Tabak, for the Currulao - a VERY COOL African-influenced Latin rhythm popular in Western Colombia.
I need to go over this more closely (when I'm not so tired) - it's such an indepth analysis! Need to see how this 'Pulse Dissonance' may relate to some other genres.
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I LOVE Sus chords - hadn't thought about using them to deliberately create momentary tension!
As Fiddlers, we can use them for reharmonization, improvisation (arpeggiated), accompaniment & making backing tracks!
The Power of Suspensions! (Lessons With Jared) - THE BEST video for general info & history of sus chords/suspensions I've found (just skip past the guitar exercises)!
Better Chord Progressions with Suspended Chords (Implied Music) - more videos at this YT Channel. Tension & release!!!
I LOVE the effect sus chord changes have on the 'Harmonic Rhythm'... more like partial changes - MORPHING!
Jeez... going to take the rest of my lifetime to get all of these types of dissonances ingrained in my soul. 🥴
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Wow... I have to admit that the 1st time I tried watching the "Pulse Dissonance in Colombian Currulao" video (in post#4) - my eyes & ears glazed over after the ostinato!
Whew - was able to focus on the whole video this evening & confidently say, without Lina's analysis... I would've never been able to understand this music!
LOVE how she identified & compared the Grouping Dissonance, Displacement Dissonance & Pulse Dissonance for "Adiós Guapi".
Lina suggests looking for 'Pulse Dissonance' in more familiar Western music, like parts of Stravinsky's, "The Rite of Spring" (I know nothing about & certainly not going to analyse) - so, looked to see what I could find...
I LOVE David Bruce's videos (always entertaining)! He talks about 6 different ways dissonance is repeated throughout "The Rite of Spring". By the 3rd strategy, 'Rhythmic Dissonance' becomes VERY apparent!!!
...interesting way of looking at music! 🤔... not sure if David touched on anything similar to 'Pulse Dissonance' - maybe I'll have to ask David about Lina's concept. There was a lot of info to take in all at once (I'm going to have to re-watch the video).
The video's comments are definitely worth reading!
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Creating TENSION and RELEASE in Music - Music Composition - FIVE TIPS (check out Music Matters Channel).
0:00 - Introduction to creating tension and release in music
1:44 - Rhythmic activity
4:13 - Changing the tempo
6:27 - Use of dynamics
9:40 - Varying the texture
11:16 - Harmony and chords
This is NOT just for composing! I want to consider these when 'phrasing', doing 'improvisation' & providing 'backing' for fiddle playing!
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"How To Create Tension in Music" - found suggestions to control Tension & Release cycles at the 'Beyond Music Theory' site - much has already been mentioned.
Most folks here have probably been using some of these ways to enhance 'tension & release', without even thinking about it - maybe starting with timbre (choosing to use 4th finger vs open strings, or shifting), dynamics & ornamentation?
Can't remember if I mentioned bow strokes already, but playing some notes staccato (or spiccato) builds tension - then, when followed up with longer bow strokes (detaché, or legato), releases it!
I've started trying some different combinations of methods in this thread & links - still going to take time.
...it's exciting to see how we can build & control energy in the music we play!
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check out this channel
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@ABitRusty -
Thanks! Quite a variety of videos that look helpful on the Open Studio Channel (I'll check them out)!
Adding a cadence for a little tension is a GREAT suggestion!
I have NO idea why I never seem to think of cadence unless it's Baroque music! 🥴 I really like he says, "This doesn't have to be in the Chord Changes" (it's just improvised).
LOVE the idea a Cadence doesn't have to be just at the end of a piece.
Cadence and Sequence in Baroque Music with David Watkin. LOVE his videos, a unique perspective on phrasing & visualizing how music moves! Recitatives - hadn't thought about the difference in language phrasing of other Countries.
When cadence is used like in the "The Heart Melter Chords" video, it's also a good example of tension caused by changes in Harmonic Rhythm.
I think it's similar to why gracenotes (and other ornaments) can be so effective in a melody - they produce temporary melodic & rhythmic tension!
Grace Notes on Steroids! (Josh Cook). 'Chromatic Clusters' - something to think about for any genre.
I'm usually thinking I need to add MORE chords 🙄 (trying to remedy that). David Bennett's video "Songs That Only Use One Chord" shows ways others have chosen to provide musical energy & movement when centering on only one chord. There's some things I didn't know about the Blues & Funk music (which makes sense, now)!
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Yesterday (maybe because I started playing Billie Eilish's,"Bury a Friend") was thinking about what a great tool SPACE is - not in the sense of recording/processing, but in melody, rhythm & phrasing... for creating tension.
Jeez, adding a pause/silence, makes me feel ANTICIPATION! I'm not so sure it works equally well for 'release' (yet there's silence at the end of a piece). Been a bit confused by the term, 'Negative Space' - can't we 'add' space, or only 'remove' stuff from the music to create space? I'm always thinking of 'shoving notes over' to make room. 🙄
I remember how powerful it felt the 1st time I heard SPACE used at the beginning of "The Humours of Tuaimgréine". I don't usually expect any long pauses in music with drones (maybe I don't listen to enough pipers, or Indian music) - and what about trying to squeeze any space into high-speed trad Irish?
Have noticed that the better I know a piece of music, my perspective of 'time' changes while playing. Been worried about losing phrasing as I've learned to play some trad Irish & Cape Breton music faster, but I've begun to feel an illusion that 'time' slows down. I'm sure it's just my brain is freed up a bit, allowing me room to think. Anyway, adding a larger interval of silence feels dramatically tense (just not always feasible), but I think adding smaller ones has a lot of impact, too.
(*edited) ...a good groove feels like the best way for me to express a tension & release cycle at tempos like reels - seems like mostly bowing articulation, dynamics & attack that helps this timing be heard most.
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Even in recordings for Irish trad stuff... between tunes in a set if the group has just a moment of space..no playing.. then that first big chord of the next tune it can be very powerful. Ive heard it called a "gong of silence" 😊 somewhere.. pretty accurate when youre trucking along in a reel.. hear a "hup" then just silence..then the next tune.
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...the Gong of Silence - perfect! 😄
I can see that... especially when there's an absence of any decay at the end of the tunes (in the set) - the sound stops abruptly, feels like dropping into slilence, except for the end of the very last tune might have some sustain.
🤔... just remembered there's awkward (for me to count) intervals of silence in "True" (from My Demon) that can throw me off if I'm not focused - maybe why I enjoy playing it.
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ELCBK said
...the Gong of Silence - perfect! 😄I can see that... especially when there's an absence of any decay at the end of the tunes - the sound stops abruptly, except for the very end of the last tune.
🤔... just remembered there's awkward (for me) intervals of silence in "True" (from My Demon) that can throw me off if I'm not focused - maybe why I enjoy playing it.
im not speaking of the END of a tune. Im talking about the in between from a tune to another in a SET. it is a very exciting effect if not done too much and obviously when played and executed well.
if playing is subpar the "gong of silence" would be welcomed.. lol. 😀 it would be "yay they quit playing...oh no they started again"
but back to topic.. i meant in between tunes not ending a tune. that usually wotks better with some type of sustain on last note or something special
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I understood - edited for clarity.
Still think it's worth looking at the effect of articulation entering into a rest/pause/silence... and coming out of it - if there's any time between tunes to do it.
Maybe we can choose to enhance the tension (?)
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ELCBK said
I understood - edited for clarity.Still think it's worth looking at the effect of articulation entering into a rest/pause/silence... and coming out of it - if there's any time between tunes to do it.
Maybe we can choose to enhance the tension (?)
Still think it's worth looking at the effect of articulation entering into a rest/pause/silence...
what are you saying there? I was just posting what i thought was a great affect.. sounds like youre wanting to expand on that with youre version of what you think is better. which is fine but you havent even heard anything i was thinking of because i didnt share an example...so how would you know to change anything?
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@ABitRusty -
I did add an after-thought... you made me think of trying different bowing articulation 'possibilities'. 😔
but you havent even heard anything i was thinking of because i didnt share an example...so how would you know to change anything?
I'll PM you.
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ELCBK said
@ABitRusty -"....you made me think of trying different bowing articulation 'possibilities'. 😔 "
Cool! what ones and how would you perform that going into a break in playing between the set tunes. and i mean like a second or less really. I havent measured out exactly and it will depend on the music tempo.
For me im thinking of hitting that very last note of leading tune with a bit more emphasis and leaving bow on strings to keep note from ringing. im thinking youd want to NOT have sustain at that point..
whats your take and what articulations would you use?
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I agree, an abrupt ending of sound gives the most impact. Stopping the bow on the string does stop the sound.
As I've been speeding up tempo (and trying to get cleaner sound), I try to get off the string for short notes as quickly as possible (without losing sound intensity) & only keep the bow on the string for the longest sound.
Found extra bite (collé articulation) on the last note can allow me to not only leave the string quickly, but also more time to reposition my bow & prepare for a strong down bow beginning the next tune. If string rings too much - LH can immediately damp the strings while repositioning the bow, but I think that initial attack is what's heard most (not any decay, or fade). What part of the bow I start the next tune on makes a difference, too (more defined nearer the frog).
Good fiddlers make everything appear effortless, so not sure if similar to what I'm saying can be seen in these 2 videos.
At 3:52 (tune ends on an up bow) in this video from Dolan's pub (Limerick, Ireland) - Irish Traditional Music Session.
Also, here at approx 1:35 (tune ends on a down bow - 1st 'hup' at 1:22). Dervish - Traditional Irish Music from LiveTrad.com Clip 4 (Livetrad).
Do you think fiddle quality & string response can make much difference in effort put into bowing?
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@elcbk said..."Do you think fiddle quality & string response can make much difference in effort put into bowing?"
To a point yes. I think a poorly built instrument can hurt learning worse than a top of the line instrument can help if that makes sense. I think for me there was a happy place on build quality that afterwards it just became personal taste. I liked the sound under my ear of fiddles i bought.. did it mqke much difference 10' away..idk
helicores are very responsive. ive noticed them for that vs my favorite synthetic.
i think some of the things give a person confidence or make practicing and playing alone easier. some things maybe are less important when mixed together with a big group. but if youve been practicing alot because you have a decent instrument you enjoy playing...it helps with the other when you get a chance.
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