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Berty is just plain LOUD!!
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Schaick
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March 9, 2015 - 8:51 pm
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While being loud might be a good thing at Jam - the store at times is filled with people talking, coming and going, etc. and those banjo players are really loud.

I have tried bowing the highway and bowing by the finger board - family hears no difference.  

Whether I put a lot of pressure on the bow or none at all literally none - family hears no difference.

I can actually picture Berty with his neck veins distended from shouting!! What am I doing wrong?

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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Schaick
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March 10, 2015 - 8:31 am
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I need to add I am really thinking of dynamics.  

How can I do dynamics if Berty is always shouting?

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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rockinglr33
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March 10, 2015 - 9:05 am
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I can't remember what kind of violin you have, but i know mine was pretty loud. The sound post had fallen and when i went to take it in the luthier had said the bridge was a bit high. When they lowered it, ( i didn't notice a huge difference in playing) it did make a big difference in how loud my violin played. 

 

Maybe you could look into that? I know on my violin i could still play a lot of dynamics even though it was loud. I usually practiced them with a mute on so i could really get into the dynamics without waking the neighborhood and then when everyone was gone I take off the mute and practice with it as it normally sounds. I find it really does help.

Also taking your violin outside to practice, if thats an option, might help see like he's much quieter. Sometimes the sound can rebound off the walls and make it seem much louder then it really is.  Good luck!

Lead me, Follow me, or get out of my way!

             ~General George S. Patton

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Schaick
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March 10, 2015 - 9:41 am
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I have a 1930-40's german copy of a french copy of a Stradivarius!!  

Thank you, something I will check into.  The neighborhood luthier was the one who cut and positioned the bridge for me.  I will ask at the store where I jam.  I was also wondering about the sound post.

I just found something on this video fiddlerman video http://fiddlerman.com/tutorial.....roduction/ that I have not tried - using the side of the bow hairs.  I use a very flat bow stroke.

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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fiddlrgrrl
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March 10, 2015 - 11:05 am
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I'm glad you posted this, I'm interested in what others have to say.  My violin seems awfully loud to me too.  I like to play with my mute (little rubber circle one) on at home but when I was taking lessons my teacher made me play without.  I think the tone is much sweeter with it, and rather harsh without but then as my playing gets better it's not quite as bad to me. 

I put a tiny bit of folded brown paper bag in the two side slots of my bridge and that has helped some.

Overall, I don't know if I'm just whining because I don't play that well yet, or if a different bridge or something would help.  I'm not near a for-real luthier but there is a guy in town who makes instruments for his family, he has rehaired my bows and put better pets in for me.  I bought my violin from him, and I'm pretty sure he's the one who set the bridge and sound post. 

Fiddlrgrrl

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coolpinkone
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March 10, 2015 - 1:06 pm
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My violin is loud also.  I am not sure if that is wrong.  I mean I can make it play softer for dynamics.. or even louder.  When I started playing violin my teacher used to tell me to play louder.... I learned to play loud.  I try to play softer when I play with others. 

I am curious about this loud thing... I mean I usually play alone and I play loud and I don't care.  IT is hard for me to play with tracks as I can't hear the track.   I can use head phones... but I don't always have a pocket for my cell phone. 

Hum.. thinking I need head phones with a long cord.   :)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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BillyG
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March 10, 2015 - 2:29 pm
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.....interesting - I arrived at the acoustic after having "played" the electric for a few months ( both as amped and un-amped )  - and I had a tendency to "really dig in to the strings".   When I got my FM Concert acoustic I was almost deafening myself.  I'm a beginner, not quite a year in to playing yet, so my overall bowing technique has a LONG way to go - but one of the things I really AM working on is expression and dynamics.  

All I can say is that I have a little exercise that works quite well for playing "ppp" and also for varying dynamic expression and that is to try to perform a full, one-direction bow stroke lasting 20 to 30 seconds ( yes, 30 secs ) and to draw a steady and constant tone from the instrument (open or stopped string, same difference - try the open first ).   Doing THAT really showed me how inportant pressure, speed and bow angle ( hair on side as distinct from flat ) could be.

I have NO idea if that helps or not - just a thought from what I personally have discovered....   and I do that little exercise from time to time - maybe once or twice a week....   I'm also very conscious of when wanting to play VERY SOFTLY by moving up beyond the end of the fingerboard ( i.e. playing over the ebony fingerboard ) - oh - maybe up to a full inch - that can make a HUGE difference to the volume ( and the timbre ) 

Anyway - that's where I "came from" and it kinda works for me...

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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coolpinkone
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March 10, 2015 - 3:33 pm
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@BillyG 

Bill what is "ppp?"

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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BillyG
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March 10, 2015 - 3:38 pm
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ppp is pianiss-ISSMO - i.e very very very soft.....  softer than pp

 

EDIT - SO soft it is scarcely a whisper....

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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coolpinkone
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March 10, 2015 - 3:43 pm
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oh.. yes.... thank you.. (duh?? right..???facepalm)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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BillyG
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March 10, 2015 - 3:50 pm
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LOL @ facepalm - yup....   I did not find it easy ( still don't - it is so EASY to make the concert SPEAK OUT LOUD - lol - but I found that my 20 - 30 second exercise - gently and very slowly bowed, constant speed, tilted bow so fewer hairs in contact, rosined properly - it can be done.   Probably not significant in "normal pieces you would play" - I guess there are very few pieces that require a sustained 20 or 30 second note.... LOL- but I found it helped me "get the idea" of "playing softly" when needed...

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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fiddlrgrrl
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March 10, 2015 - 5:15 pm
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coolpinkone said

I am curious about this loud thing... I mean I usually play alone and I play loud and I don't care.  IT is hard for me to play with tracks as I can't hear the track.   I can use head phones... but I don't always have a pocket for my cell phone. 

Hum.. thinking I need head phones with a long cord.   :)

OK. I can't resist pointing you to my brilliant elcheapo solution for what you just described. Explanation in my original post, solution photo in the last:

http://fiddlerman.com/forum/pl.....al/#p69308

Like I said to Fiddlerman, the Dork Factor is astronomical, but since you only need it playing alone...

roflol

Fiddlrgrrl

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Fiddlerman
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March 11, 2015 - 12:05 pm
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Loud is usually very good providing the loud sound is a quality sound. The thing about a loud sounding violin is that it allows you to play softly by not working hard. In other words you barely need to press to get a sound out of the violin.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Schaick
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March 12, 2015 - 6:47 pm
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Hey @Bill that is what I did to get the soft notes.

I thought I had this all figured out.  I was able to distinguish between between loud notes and soft when I was playing.  I recorded it and listened back there was no difference?!

But check out what - Fiddlerman's video page on dynamics- To play louder play closer to the bridge, draw the bow slower and apply more pressure. To play softer, play closer to the fingerboard and apply less pressure. Experiment with these 3 elements to find the ideal combination for what you are trying to achieve.

When I as bowing very slow and with teeny tiny amounts of bow and on the edge of the bow and by the fingerboard I was hearing the notes softer.  If I had to count for 4 though, there is no way I could have gotten the full count of the note in.

BUT like I said hearing in real time was way different then what the recording played back!!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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March 13, 2015 - 4:26 pm
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I recorded on my laptop and I could hear the difference!!  YAH!! RAH!!  sis boom bah momma's in the kitchen ooh la la!!

I just had my daughter listen in - she could tell a noticeable difference. I think last month when I had her listen, all I was doing was changing position from next to the bridge to at the edge of the fingerboard, no change of pressure, amount or speed of bow.

Now according to her the sound changes only when I am applying less pressure and use smaller bows.  It doesn't seem to matter which lane I am bowing in.  

Which is all because that is what I was hearing.

Weird but the picture on my laptop recording is very faded and distorted.  My camera is crystal clear!!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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